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Old 06-04-2009, 08:28 PM   #1
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Default Adaptronic and OBDII codes updates

Driven a few miles and still have no pending codes.

I'd drive it more but alas, I'm in this effed up catch 22 where the car's registration is expired and the OBDII tests are not all complete and I can't legally drive it to run the tests and I can't run the tests without driving it.

So anyway, no visible codes, no pending codes after like 4 miles.

I do have some tip-in weirdness (leanness) that's being a pain to tune out, but that's another thread.
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:30 PM   #2
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Please PLEASE let me...us...know how well the ignition autotune works. Thats the #1 thing I'm interested in.
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Driven a few miles and still have no pending codes.

I'd drive it more but alas, I'm in this effed up catch 22 where the car's registration is expired and the OBDII tests are not all complete and I can't legally drive it to run the tests and I can't run the tests without driving it.

So anyway, no visible codes, no pending codes after like 4 miles.

I do have some tip-in weirdness (leanness) that's being a pain to tune out, but that's another thread.
transient throttle settings?

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Please PLEASE let me...us...know how well the ignition autotune works. Thats the #1 thing I'm interested in.
Is based on the knock sensor feedback.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ismael_pt View Post
Is based on the knock sensor feedback.
From what I read on here it can do it based on instantaneous engine acceleration without a knock sensor.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:32 PM   #5
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Yea, because engine power will automatically go down when it begins detonating. I would recommend a knock sensor though. Especially on a dyno if your running 7000 RPM maximum boost for 30 seconds it might not detonate at first, but then start as components begin to superheat. Its always a good idea to have knock sensing ability when you start playing with the ignition timing. It doesn't take long at all to destroy a motor under maximum load and high RPM if it starts detonating.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:46 PM   #6
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thread buttsex!

yes yes, I'll spend time ignition autotuning when I get a valid title/reg.

ismael: yeah transient throttle. it doesn't behave as I'd expect, but I'm still learning.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Yea, because engine power will automatically go down when it begins detonating. I would recommend a knock sensor though. Especially on a dyno if your running 7000 RPM maximum boost for 30 seconds it might not detonate at first, but then start as components begin to superheat. Its always a good idea to have knock sensing ability when you start playing with the ignition timing. It doesn't take long at all to destroy a motor under maximum load and high RPM if it starts detonating.
Understood. I'm already in the blow motor club, it was before you joined.

I'm I safe to assume that it can be made to work with virtually any knock sensor? They are easy to wire up right? Single 5V signal wire, grounding to block? Knock pulls V low? I have no clue, but that would make sense in my head.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:26 AM   #8
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brian, i've got a spare 01 knock sensor i had planned to use before i realized how easy it was to share the one on the car.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:26 PM   #9
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three days driving to work. today without the computer because the **** runs NICE.

I read codes last night and saw I had a pending P0507 (idle speed higher than expected) but since the stock ECU is running that show, there's only a few things I can do about it.

I cleared the code and closed the idle screw a full turn. next thing I will try is dropping timing at idle.

no other codes.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:43 PM   #10
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So.....about that ign autotuning
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:45 PM   #11
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Congratulations y8s!

Unfortunately I can't say the same for me:

Name:  odb.jpg
Views: 20
Size:  16.0 KB

I have a question for you, related to obdII codes... If I clear the codes with the car running the motor rev up a little for a while until the codes come back.

Also the battery light is on with these codes present, and is not related to the alternator because is throwing correct voltage and charging the battery.

Maybe my car don't crank or idle correctly because of this.

Could be something related?
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:50 PM   #12
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well for one your codes are in spanish in some cases.

honestly i wired my car totally different so I can't say what causes someone elses.

brian: hang tight lil buddy. let me get my inspection sticker.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:39 PM   #13
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You're killing me smalls!
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:46 PM   #14
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@ismael: PM me a circuitlayout and I will watch for you. Some things will be simple to solve, others will be hard to solve.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:50 PM   #15
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I'm definitely going to be watching this thread. I need to keep the OBDII functionality for NJ and want to switch to an adaptronic soon.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Yea, because engine power will automatically go down when it begins detonating. I would recommend a knock sensor though. Especially on a dyno if your running 7000 RPM maximum boost for 30 seconds it might not detonate at first, but then start as components begin to superheat.
I've seen the contrary.

I think tuning out detonation or tuning in general without det cans is a waste of a good motor.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #17
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Jason sbb's thread on timing shows what I'm talking about. If your on the dyno and you are tuning in the motor with your AFR's already set you should get large gains at first from advance, and then pretty soon you'll hit the plateau. At this point maybe one degree is registering .25hp gain. If degrees of advance continue to be added peak pressure is going to keep going up until power starts to fall off from the cylinder pressure building too much before the piston hits TDC and then finaly you get pre-ignition and detonation sometime after power has already started to fall off.

So what this does auto tuning feature does if your running without a knock sensor is tune the car using changes in torque based on changes in motor RPM. If the motor increases in RPM based on an increase in timing and that increase is large then continue increasing. If the increase is small then increase timing by a small amount. Finally it will home in on the ideal timing figure. Once it does this, I'd pull the master trim back 2-3 degrees and let it run open loop. The advantage is the computer senses and advances ignition much more quickly then a human can. It could span 15 degrees of advance in 30 seconds. A human might take 5 minutes to do the same span. If you think about the number of cells you have to tune this is a huge cut down in the amount of time to get it close.

If you have a knock sensor you can safegaurd your car one step farther and set the adaptronic to closed loop control so that it can pull more timing if it ever hears knock. It kind of works like a J&S does. All together if you want to be safe about your ignition tuning some kind a knock sensor or det cans really make the job alot easier, and with a permanently installed knock sensor it adds a second level of protection. So I agree with Hustler, if you want to be safe about it you should have a knocksensor on board anyways.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:09 AM   #18
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been driving a few more days since 6/12 after clearing the pending idle speed code and cleaned up the idle timing / closed idle screw and it hasn't come back yet.

i've still got four OBDII tests to run yet so it'll be a while still but it's promising.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:12 PM   #19
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BIG UPDATE!

Adaptronic-powered turbo 2001 miata passes obdii emissions test!

The secrets:
1. share the water temp, knock, crank, vss, neutral, clutch, and throttle position sensors.

2. use the adaptronic for Injectors, Ignition, and MAF sensor output (more on this later)

3. leave everything else connected to the stock ECU. including o2 sensor heaters...

4. but not the O2 sensor signal wires! For the front O2, provide a 1 to 1.25Hz square wave from .25 to .65 volts with a PRECISE duty cycle of XX.XX% (within <1ms accuracy). I'll fill in that number when I know what it is. For the rear o2, provide a .3 Hz square wave from .25 to .65 volts with a duty cycle to match.

5. output a 0-5V 3D map that looks like this:

Code:
	0.00	500	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500	7000	7500	8000	8500	9000
0	1.69	1.80	1.91	2.00	2.09	2.17	2.23	2.29	2.34	2.38	2.42	2.44	2.45	2.46	2.45	2.44	2.42	2.38	2.34
20	1.86	2.00	2.12	2.24	2.34	2.44	2.53	2.61	2.68	2.74	2.80	2.84	2.88	2.90	2.92	2.92	2.92	2.91	2.89
40	2.02	2.17	2.32	2.46	2.58	2.70	2.81	2.91	3.00	3.09	3.16	3.23	3.28	3.33	3.36	3.39	3.41	3.42	3.42
60	2.16	2.33	2.50	2.66	2.81	2.95	3.08	3.20	3.31	3.41	3.51	3.59	3.67	3.74	3.79	3.84	3.88	3.92	3.94
80	2.28	2.47	2.66	2.84	3.01	3.17	3.32	3.46	3.60	3.72	3.84	3.94	4.04	4.13	4.21	4.28	4.34	4.39	4.43
100	2.38	2.60	2.81	3.01	3.20	3.38	3.55	3.71	3.87	4.01	4.15	4.28	4.40	4.50	4.60	4.69	4.75	4.75	4.75
120	2.47	2.71	2.94	3.16	3.37	3.57	3.76	3.95	4.12	4.29	4.45	4.59	4.73	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
140	2.54	2.80	3.05	3.29	3.52	3.74	3.96	4.16	4.36	4.55	4.72	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
160	2.59	2.87	3.14	3.40	3.66	3.90	4.14	4.36	4.58	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
180	2.63	2.93	3.22	3.50	3.78	4.04	4.30	4.54	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
200	2.64	2.97	3.28	3.58	3.88	4.16	4.44	4.71	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
220	2.64	2.99	3.32	3.65	3.96	4.27	4.56	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
240	2.63	2.99	3.35	3.69	4.03	4.35	4.67	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
260	2.59	2.98	3.35	3.72	4.08	4.43	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
280	2.54	2.95	3.34	3.73	4.11	4.48	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
300	2.48	2.90	3.32	3.73	4.13	4.52	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75	4.75
And fine tune to match the values shown at two RPM points in the shop manual for airflow using your trusty OBDII reader.

6. drive the car and verify that

6A) the OBDII readiness monitors run. This is simple.
Warm up the car to 80C / 176F / whatever.
hold the engine RPM at a precise 1800-2200 for 15sec
hold the engine RPM at a precise 3000-3400 for 15sec
(use the obdii data to verify RPM since the tach is inaccurate)
drive steadily between 55 and 58 mph for 1 minute and 4 minutes each.
this should set all but one or two monitors.

IF THEY DO NOT SET, you have a problem. AFM, O2, and other sensor data is required to be accurate for these to set. double check your airflow and o2 (short term / long term trim) values in your OBDII scanner and make sure they are accurate. airflow should match the FSM and long term trim should be below +/-10% and steady... not increasing beyond that. STT should be bouncing around zero.

If everything sets and is OK, shut the car down for at least 8 hours and drive around at 55-58 for a few minutes again. the remaining monitors should be set.

6B) no pending codes are set. this is the key. if you have a problem or a pending code, it's probably airflow or o2 sensor related. check the g/sec and trim values again. fine tune and repeat the above procedure.

7) if you can drive around and no codes show up, you're done!

more later. i'm stoked.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:20 PM   #20
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Amazing job Matt.

Please pardon my adaptronic ignorance, but I am highly interested and curious.

1. Did you have to build any circuitry to successfully share the cam and crank signals?

4. Does the adaptronic do this, or did you build circuits?

Thanks
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