Installing a 420C on a M45 mk1 1.6 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-13-2010, 05:54 PM   #1
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Default Installing a 420C on a M45 mk1 1.6

Hi All,

I am new to this forum but have owned my 1990 UK mx5 for 9 years now, and modified it quite a lot with M45, 60/150, chargecooler, HSV WI, EMU then more recently I changed for a Gotech ProX which I had fitted but didn't turn out well. The car started and drove but idle was unacceptable and there were other issues too. I am therefore now removing this with my brother and fitting a 420C.

We are trying to return the car management back to as close to standard as possible, getting it to run on the OEM ECU before moving on to the Adaptronic install and tune.

Unfortunatly rather than the wiring having been done in the footwell for the Gotech it has been done in the engine bay with the injector harness cut along with many other wires. We have returned most of it back to standard now by reconnecting the wires and fitting the std injectors, flappy AFM, OEM coil pack etc and the only error code from the diagnostics box is for the missing carbon canister.

The car won't start though, it turns over but won't catch and back fires. He's pulled the plugs and they are wet, and has tried using part throttle but still it won't start.

Our first thought jumped to the ignition order but I've double checked the ht lead positions and they're correct according to the workshop manual PDF diagram. I've also dialed the tps to extreames but no change. The wiring to the coil is pretty standard since the engine loom end was untouched as a new loom was fitted to power the presumably ford coil pack direct from the gotech. The other end at the ecu is pretty easy too since it was just a case of matching up the wires from where I'd previously spliced in the e-manage so the low current side (ie not ht) should be fine too.

To address the fuel relay issue , I can't quite see what's happening, there is no additional wires to the fuel pump, and the 'starting circuit relay' operates ok giving power to the pump supply terminal. Then according to the circuit diagram it's just a straight feed to the pump - yet I don't get power to the pump. I have removed most of the dash Inc blower unit, glove box and center console but I can't find any gotech cables running anywhere near that side of the car - odd!!! So i've run a new cable and pump works great just as it should.

The Gotech wasn't installed standalone, the original ecu was just (as far as I can tell) no longer controlling fuel or spark, the Mazda ecu still doing cooling fans, starting circuit etc.

Brother has timed the car to 11 deg BTDC on the starter motor and no difference so still looking for the cause of the backfire/non-starting. Brother has noticed a possible strange wiring colour issue with the OEM coil pack we recieved back which presumably is our original one but can't be sure (Ross has removed the presumably Ford one fitted).

The car harness plugs into the coil pack harness and both have 3 wires.

The wires from the car harness to the plug from the top are:
White
Red
Blue

and on the other side of the plug from the coil are:
Black with white stripe,
White
Red

which seems a little strange possibly? The manual and circuit diagrams don't seem to mention the plug or wire colours either side of it so we would really appreciate it if someone with a mk1 1.6 (if it makes any difference?)could have a look at the wire colours on there's, which should be easily visable we believe.

We have had a look at the CAS sensor and noticed the back is missing off it but since the car ran on the Gotech in this form I imagine the problem is not this.

Another curious bit is that if you do the multimeter testing of the coils we get the manual stated resistance on the secondary windings but the primary windings give 1.5 ohms which is more than the 0.78 to 0.94 ohms (@20oC) stated in the manual, but I am not sure that this would cause the car to not start and just backfire would it?

Any suggestions of what the problem could be or what to do next would be greatly appreciated as we are a bit lost about what to do next. We don't really want to buy replacement parts at random to try as this could get very expensive very quickly!

Finally is there any point installing the adaptronic in this state incase it is the ecu that is faulty for some reason (it worked fine with the EMU before the Gotech install) or will fitting the Gotech just confuse the issue if installed before the problem is found?

Thanks in advance
John
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:42 PM   #2
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I think it's a good move to get things sorted before adding more variables like the Adaptronic. Have you got a friend with an NA that could try your coils in their car? Are you sure the injectors are stock? Not flooding the thing?

Flipside If it's a plug and play unit, you could at least plug it in and make sure you're getting good readings from sensors.
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Old 04-14-2010, 04:52 AM   #3
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No I don't know anyone with one near where I am.

I don't have a plug-n-play unit with it, I didn't think it was worth it being as I had so much re-wiring to do anyway.

I have a plug-n-play unit from a Suzuki Swift which I plan on cutting to use the wiring harness and adaptonic plugs and I also have a compatable plug for the car harness which I will just need to wire up.
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by John90_UK View Post
Hi All,


Another curious bit is that if you do the multimeter testing of the coils we get the manual stated resistance on the secondary windings but the primary windings give 1.5 ohms which is more than the 0.78 to 0.94 ohms (@20oC) stated in the manual, but I am not sure that this would cause the car to not start and just backfire would it?


Thanks in advance
John

If this indicates the coil pack is faulty, would I be better replacing it with a s/h OEM one or a Adaptronic one?
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:30 AM   #5
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Car is now running back as standard, turns out the CAS with the back missing was the problem, in fact it wasn't even the right one. It fitted so must have been off something similar though I guess unless like injectors they are quite universal. Anyway, brother replaced it and started first time and as a bonus the rev counter works again :

So now on to the Adaptronic install. What do you recommend I do from the start, considering it will be 150/60 around 12psi, with chargecooler and HSV WI?:

- re-remove the flappy AFM and use a 3 bar boost sensor?
- sequential injection?
- use a trigger wheel or the CAS, which is the best solution ultimately?
- anything else?

cheers
John
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:16 PM   #6
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Nearly finished the harness but on the diagram below there is a resistor labelled R2 which connects between power ground and sensor ground (2C and 2D) but I can't see it mentioned in the adaptronic manual. Does anyone know what size resistor to fit, I am hoping to do this tonight if possible so would appreciate a quick reply if possible?





Thanks
John
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:47 PM   #7
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bump, please
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:05 PM   #8
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Doea anyone have a base map for a 1990 mx5 running CAS and Batch Injection too please, just to get it started as I am struggling with using version 4 software and version 2 instructions.

Thanks
John
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John90_UK View Post
Doea anyone have a base map for a 1990 mx5 running CAS and Batch Injection too please, just to get it started as I am struggling with using version 4 software and version 2 instructions.

Thanks
John
The wiring diagram that you are using is setup for sequential firing. Some other setup is also different. I believe they are for NB8.
Have you tried using Andy's wiring diagram instead?
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:23 AM   #10
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Oh ok thank you very much, good job I checked!

I haven't tried any others, do you have a link to the one you refer to from Andy?

Much appreciated
John
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:37 AM   #11
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Adaptronic no longer post the MX5 implmentation notes online for download. You want want to email adaptronic for that.
If you are not going anywhere, give me an email to [email protected]
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:11 AM   #12
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Many thanks again, I have e-mailed you.

I did send adaptronic an e-mail last week about getting a base map but have not recieved any replies yet. I have just sent them another now too.

Much appreciated
John
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:31 AM   #13
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Hi All,

My car is a my car is a 1990 long nose mx5 with standard coil pack and CAS, with a variable TPS from a Auto mx5 fitted.

The options for engine selection I have are

B6 RWD NA MX5 (Wasted spark, semi sequential injection)
BP RWD NA MX5 (coil packs, cam angle sensor)
BP RWD NB MX5 (Wasted spark, sequential injection)

Does anyone know which I should use and any other settings I need to add/change? I always thought these engines were refered to as B6 but I have a came angle sensor so should it be the BP NA one?

In the B6 and BP settings it says Trigger 1 = Rising edge and Trigger 2 = Falling edge are these right? I have left the ignition standard at this stage.

Thanks
John
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:56 PM   #14
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Shoud be this
B6 RWD NA MX5 (Wasted spark, semi sequential injection)
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:50 AM   #15
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Thanks Nismo,

I have finished the harness and have loaded a base map from adaptronic and seleceted the B6 option above. Unfortunatly the car won't start. On cranking a timing light indicates no spark and additionally with the gauges window open on the Wari software zero rpm is indicated on cranking. I have checked the wiring for the crank angle sensor and ignition coil and all is correct and I have the triggering set to B6 Mx5 (car is a 1990). I have tried removing the adaptronic ecu and plugging the OEM ecu back in and the car starts fine. I have checked the wiring and everything looks ok. Does anyone have any idea's what else to try?

Thanks
John
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:59 AM   #16
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Hi again,

I have checked for continuity in the CAS wires and all seems fine.

I have looked at the data window and

Triggers 1 and 2 both start green and stay green.
Trigger 3 is red and goes yellow during cranking.

Can you please tell me what this means and what you suggest I check next?

Thanks
John
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:02 PM   #17
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Turns out it was a wiring issue, the cas pin outs are different on the adaptronic Suzuki P+P plug we are using than for the mx5 one, should have done it by pin outs not wire colours.

So now on to the tuning.

Thanks all for your help.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:02 PM   #18
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Use the time machine

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://adaptronic.com.au

I grabbed the na6 map to help make a haltech map for myself, it's all there just got to look.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:42 PM   #19
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John, hi from Manchester mate! Any chance of a few pics and details of your cars chargecooler setup??
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