Proposed Timing Maps
 

I'm trying to figure out a base map that will atleast kind of work for everyone. This is what I came up with. its a composite of joe perez, savington's and a couple other maps, redone with some polynomial fits and some normalizing, and then a net timing cut to ensure knock safety. Please blister if it looks bad.

minor change I notice right away

for 0, 500, 1000, and 1500 rpm:

0 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

20 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

40 kPa:
18, 15, 15, 15

should keep idle stable and happy

Subscribed. After everyone has given it their blessing, I'll throw it in and give it a go.

When you say net timing cut, are you talking a percentage or units across the board?

My beautifully blended timing map got raped by your suggestions. I'm going to smooth this out a bit, and post up the revised version, but pretty much the above with what he said. I know some of that low load middle RPM stuff doesn't have alot of advance in it. Anyone care to offer suggestions to part throttle land?

I pulled 2 degrees out of everything after it was done.

In theory the 1.6, 1.8, and 99+ motors have different VE curves and thus should have different timing maps.

Just need a map to make sure everyone is driving safe. Not too much retard to fry valves and not too much advance to ventilate blocks. It would be great if we could get the gold standard for each, but nearly everything on the motor will influence the VE curve as much as the head so its nearly a lost cause on even approaching perfection.

Hmm, I will give these a shot during my next trip out... maybe in an hour.

Dumb question tho... when I try to put a value lower than 16 in the fields that Y8S suggested in his post... they revert back to 16? What's the trick?



Thanks for posting them!!!
Cheers,
Prospero

Your map doesn't have to be smooth down there near the idle transition to throttle-on. so what if the timing jumps 20 or 30 degrees just by touching the gas pedal?

Run lots of advance at part-throttle. I'm between 30-40 degrees from 100kPa down. This is important especially if someone wants to run lean at cruise. edit: I think you're ok for the most part there.

Matt, you should post up your map for reference.

Which Matt?

Y8S or me?

Cheers,
M@

18.0 degrees at 4500rpm and 180kpa would have my motor knocking horribly.

It's in this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t18648/ ;)

I was referring to Yates.

Any chance of a screen shot of your fuel map as well? Or you can pm it to me if its not too much trouble (so we dont knock this thread off topic). I am in the middle of working on mine right now and just want to see as many of your guys' as I can so I know what the "general curve" looks like.....

Thanks Matt.

I wish I would have dont the 300 RPM steps from the get-go just for better resolution. If you change it it just pushes the cells down. I suupose that I could remassage it, seeing as my tune isn't anything special right now.

Looks like another weekend project.

Since I had time to kill... I went ahead and put the timing numbers in, sorta a mix between Y8S earlier suggestions and Travis models...

Sure that it will take more playing with; but hey...that's 15 min worth of data entry already done.

Cheers,
Prospero
Attachment 12672

Attachment 12673

Good stuff:)


Btw I'm using 500rpm steps as well. All the evo/sti ecu's use that I figure I wont really need much more resolution that that. Am I wrong?

You may want to go back and read Savington's interjection about 18 degrees at 4500 @ 180kPa being a bad thing.

The reason most of our maps dip there is as someone mentioned in the thread Rafa linked--it's the torque peak and the cylinder pressures are highest. That's where knock is most likely to rear its head. Best to back off a little bit and save the motor.

Incidentally, my spark map is *slightly* more aggressive than FM's base map for the hydra. Porting it over was a bitch if anyone cares.

Vlad: start a new thread for fuel maps if you wanna see em. This is the timing map thread.

Stein: I wish the software had two things: 1) fully configurable breakpoints for RPM and MAP, and 2) a rescale function. sigh.

No doubt. I also wish it could toggle between *C and *F.

FWIW: I only wish I could get the car to rev that high under boost. Hell, I have yet to go more than 75% throttle and really dig in since I get this insane sputtering under fast rising boost. If I ease in, she pulls well and is okay but when I stab the throttle the AFRS go from 13s to 11s and I get what feels like a miss. So till I get this resolved... no high boost RPMs for me :( :vash:

Will go in and adjust the timing more as I go... input like yours is great! Honestly, thanks :)

Cheers,
M@

Pretty sure it's your asynch. Follow the Asynch procedure for tuning it. Start at zero, stab throttle. If hit hesitates, add 5. Keep going up. It will get better. Keep going. When it starts to do it again, back it off. Do again from 1500, 2000, 2500. You will need less each time.

Paraphrasing, but it's in the manual.

AFR going to 11 shouldn't make the car buck or sputter.

If you're running closed loop ignition, it may be a too sensitive knock sensor noise map.

I've been using this map for 3 months now up to ~155kpa on 93 octane.

I did more tuning over the weekend... added more duration by hand to the injectors for my trouble areas. Much better than before but still have a long way to go.

Dumb question... could a bad, just 1, injector make this happen?

Cheers,
Prospero

yes it could. the wideband averages all four cylinders to obtain a reading (it has to, there's only one downpipe) and if one injector is way off, it'll cause the other three to compensate in the other direction.

Possible, but doubtful. Your new 600's were 100% tested and should be good. Might check the Windows>ECU data screen when driving. See if all four are firing at the same rate.

I was a dumbass during the injector install and one took a 2' drop onto concrete... the pindle cap (sp) got knocked pretty good and was visibly out of alignment... I was able to press it back into shape; but it was not 100% spot on. Sadly I was in a bind and had to put my injectors in before it started to rain and so I rolled with it.

Forgot all about this issue; but now it seems to be the problem...

Hope I can get it fixed!

Cheers,
Prospero

Well, send it back to them and if you are up front with them I'd guess a low-to-no cost repair.

Yeah, I already have made contact. Waiting on a reply. Honestly, I do not mind having to buy 1 more injector... my own fault...