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Old 07-16-2009, 11:20 PM   #1
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Default Proposed Timing Maps

I'm trying to figure out a base map that will atleast kind of work for everyone. This is what I came up with. its a composite of joe perez, savington's and a couple other maps, redone with some polynomial fits and some normalizing, and then a net timing cut to ensure knock safety. Please blister if it looks bad.
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File Type: pdf proposedtiming.pdf (401.7 KB, 155 views)
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:54 PM   #2
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minor change I notice right away

for 0, 500, 1000, and 1500 rpm:

0 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

20 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

40 kPa:
18, 15, 15, 15

should keep idle stable and happy
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:26 AM   #3
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Subscribed. After everyone has given it their blessing, I'll throw it in and give it a go.

When you say net timing cut, are you talking a percentage or units across the board?
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
minor change I notice right away

for 0, 500, 1000, and 1500 rpm:

0 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

20 kPa:
15, 12, 12, 12

40 kPa:
18, 15, 15, 15

should keep idle stable and happy
My beautifully blended timing map got raped by your suggestions. I'm going to smooth this out a bit, and post up the revised version, but pretty much the above with what he said. I know some of that low load middle RPM stuff doesn't have alot of advance in it. Anyone care to offer suggestions to part throttle land?

Quote:
When you say net timing cut, are you talking a percentage or units across the board?
I pulled 2 degrees out of everything after it was done.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:44 AM   #5
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In theory the 1.6, 1.8, and 99+ motors have different VE curves and thus should have different timing maps.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:48 AM   #6
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Just need a map to make sure everyone is driving safe. Not too much retard to fry valves and not too much advance to ventilate blocks. It would be great if we could get the gold standard for each, but nearly everything on the motor will influence the VE curve as much as the head so its nearly a lost cause on even approaching perfection.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:29 AM   #7
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Hmm, I will give these a shot during my next trip out... maybe in an hour.

Dumb question tho... when I try to put a value lower than 16 in the fields that Y8S suggested in his post... they revert back to 16? What's the trick?



Thanks for posting them!!!
Cheers,
Prospero

Last edited by Prospero; 07-17-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
My beautifully blended timing map got raped by your suggestions. I'm going to smooth this out a bit, and post up the revised version, but pretty much the above with what he said. I know some of that low load middle RPM stuff doesn't have alot of advance in it. Anyone care to offer suggestions to part throttle land?
Your map doesn't have to be smooth down there near the idle transition to throttle-on. so what if the timing jumps 20 or 30 degrees just by touching the gas pedal?

Run lots of advance at part-throttle. I'm between 30-40 degrees from 100kPa down. This is important especially if someone wants to run lean at cruise. edit: I think you're ok for the most part there.
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Old 07-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #9
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Matt, you should post up your map for reference.
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Old 07-17-2009, 02:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Matt, you should post up your map for reference.
Which Matt?

Y8S or me?

Cheers,
[email protected]
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Old 07-17-2009, 02:43 PM   #11
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18.0 degrees at 4500rpm and 180kpa would have my motor knocking horribly.
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Matt, you should post up your map for reference.
It's in this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t18648/
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Which Matt?

Y8S or me?

Cheers,
[email protected]
I was referring to Yates.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:26 PM   #14
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:30 PM   #15
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Any chance of a screen shot of your fuel map as well? Or you can pm it to me if its not too much trouble (so we dont knock this thread off topic). I am in the middle of working on mine right now and just want to see as many of your guys' as I can so I know what the "general curve" looks like.....
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:33 PM   #16
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Thanks Matt.

I wish I would have dont the 300 RPM steps from the get-go just for better resolution. If you change it it just pushes the cells down. I suupose that I could remassage it, seeing as my tune isn't anything special right now.

Looks like another weekend project.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:35 PM   #17
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Since I had time to kill... I went ahead and put the timing numbers in, sorta a mix between Y8S earlier suggestions and Travis models...

Sure that it will take more playing with; but hey...that's 15 min worth of data entry already done.

Cheers,
Prospero
Proposed Timing Maps-timing-per-travis.jpg

NB8A_600cc_3Bar 59638 oem 02 mild timing.zip
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:01 PM   #18
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Good stuff


Btw I'm using 500rpm steps as well. All the evo/sti ecu's use that I figure I wont really need much more resolution that that. Am I wrong?
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Since I had time to kill... I went ahead and put the timing numbers in, sorta a mix between Y8S earlier suggestions and Travis models...

Sure that it will take more playing with; but hey...that's 15 min worth of data entry already done.

Cheers,
Prospero
You may want to go back and read Savington's interjection about 18 degrees at 4500 @ 180kPa being a bad thing.

The reason most of our maps dip there is as someone mentioned in the thread Rafa linked--it's the torque peak and the cylinder pressures are highest. That's where knock is most likely to rear its head. Best to back off a little bit and save the motor.

Incidentally, my spark map is *slightly* more aggressive than FM's base map for the hydra. Porting it over was a bitch if anyone cares.

Vlad: start a new thread for fuel maps if you wanna see em. This is the timing map thread.

Stein: I wish the software had two things: 1) fully configurable breakpoints for RPM and MAP, and 2) a rescale function. sigh.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Stein: I wish the software had two things: 1) fully configurable breakpoints for RPM and MAP, and 2) a rescale function. sigh.

No doubt. I also wish it could toggle between *C and *F.
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