Using factory ECU to control idle on NB8B plugin with e420c - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-24-2011, 06:55 PM   #1
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Default Using factory ECU to control idle on NB8B plugin with e420c

Noteworthy thread from Andy on the Adaptronic forum...

http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=3589.0

Hi all, this request was sent in via email but I thought I should explain it here.

Normally when we (used to) ship the NB8B e420c plugin boards, we connect the 4 jumpers for the Adaptronic e420c to control the idle.
If you instead want the factory ECU to control the idle, it can do this, however it does not have the full temperature input from the coolant temperature sensor, as this is used for the e420c. The aux output 1 from the e420c feeds into the temperature input on the factory ECU and can simulate either a hot or cold condition on the temperature input.

To change over to the factory ECU controlling idle:

1) Move all 4 idle control jumpers to the "Factory ECU" rather than "e420c" (in the picture they are all on "e420c")
2) Change the aux output type for aux output 1 to be "Water Temp", not inverted, not PWM, and set the thresholds to 40 degrees C (lower) and 55 degrees C (higher).

This will basically have two different coolant temperature levels to the factory ECU. It will go into "hot idle" when it gets above 55 degrees C.

Note that this is only required for the e420c plugin units. The Select NB ECUs share the coolant temperature sensors, so all you need to do is move the jumpers across, not change any aux outputs.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:02 PM   #2
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My request for info to Travis started this discussions =D
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Old 06-05-2011, 04:08 PM   #3
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Did you give it a try?

Looks like there might a e420c firmware update for selectable map filtering. Should help with lean tip-in that have plagued some.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
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I've been using this since I first got my Adaptronic. I was told by Andy and others that it was only implemented for their testing. Wonder why they recommend it now. I never knew about the Aux output change required, I'll give that a try later today.


These are the jumpers on the E420C board for your reference

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Old 06-06-2011, 03:25 PM   #5
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it works better then trying to turn idle. the stock ecu does a very good job at making the car idle under any condition. it starts up every time first crank and does not die.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man View Post
it works better then trying to turn idle. the stock ecu does a very good job at making the car idle under any condition. it starts up every time first crank and does not die.
That is good to know as my 420c will be going into my new car in the next few weeks. Think I'll try this method as it would be way simpler than setting up open loop/closed loop idle settings as I had to on the old car.

I'd seen the post on the adap forum, but it seemed hardly anyone had tried it out, but as you've confirmed it works well, I'll try it out. It's easily changed back to the original method if it doesn't work out for me.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:49 AM   #7
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Did anyone try this? How did it work?
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:24 PM   #8
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I've just installed my adap this weekend and I've set the jumpers on the harness board to allow the factory ecu to control idle.

I went out for the first drive with the adap installed with rapid learn running to start fine tuning the excellent base map supplied by adaptronic. I was frankly amazed at the quality of the map as a whole. I've made a few changes for the map to work with my car (nbb '04, na currently, with no aircon). But the drive was like stock.

Apart from changing the jumpers over you need to change aux 1 to a water temp setting detailed here:-

http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=3589.0

Idle is spot on so far in all the driving I did (admittedly only 20 miles or so). Idle sits at about 800 rpm, so a tad low, but it copes fine. I may need to adjust the throttle screw to adjust the base idle slightly, but for now I'm more than happy with it.

I've tried loading up the electrical drains that can often affect idle to see if it would make the idle drop or hunt. I had the blower on full, windscreen wipers, heated rear screen, heated seats, headlights on full beam, the lot. Caused it no problems at all. There was a very slight drop in idle, but then it recovers almost immediately.

Frankly I'm amazed. Yes I know the factory ecu is running idle so it should be good, but the fact that the adap is in the mix now made me think there would be some effect. But, no, it's spot on!

If I can just get my cranking settings fine tuned for all temps then I'll just need to let it run in rapid learn for a while to optimize the map.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveOffRamps View Post
Did anyone try this? How did it work?
try reading the whole post before asking if it works
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:17 AM   #10
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Well this is great and all but you cant use it with out stocker injectors :(
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Well this is great and all but you cant use it with out stocker injectors :(
Don't know where you got that idea but we were running idle like this with 600 DeatschWerks injectors. It's just the idle valve that the stock ECU controls.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Well this is great and all but you cant use it with out stocker injectors :(
Have you tried it with larger injectors in this configuration?

Adaptronic say that the stock ecu does not control the injectors when idling, it only controls the idle control valve, with the injectors left to the adaptronic.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:18 PM   #13
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Run stock idle with 335cc deatschs and 555cc five-0s. it's controls idle parameters, idle fuel is still your problem and is the way it should be. Works extremely well.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:14 AM   #14
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Oh wow sweet!!! I guess i'll be crawling under the dash tomorrow!!! Kinda want to try it now but its 12:21 AM :(.


How do you guys have the rest of your aux outs and digital inputs setup? Also when do you switch to closed loop? 55`?

Last edited by triple88a; 07-31-2011 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:35 PM   #15
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Well i'm now running on factory idle control....AMAZING!!!

I can lift and lower my windows and rpms dont budge. I havent driven the car to the point where the fans turn on so i cant call it a sure victory just yet but i dont think i'll be disappointed.

sv650 i might just arrange you some sucky sucky from your local pimp!!! Cheers.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:51 PM   #16
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Well guys got some bad news. The car idles great when cold. I wait a bit for it to warm up. After i get going the rpm does not want to come down lower than 2.1k rpm.

I wonder which of my outputs can cause this or is it something else.

I'll go try setting aux 1 to none. Maybe maybe not...whats "The Select NB ECUs" mean anyways? NBB stock ecu? NBA stock ecu? Something else?

Last edited by triple88a; 07-31-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:23 PM   #17
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Something else is definitely fucked up. I just tried running it on inverted water temp, also tried running it on none and inverted none. Rpms drop about 200-300 from none to inverted none or vice versa. The water temp setting doesnt seem to be doing ****. I had the idle valve screw on the throttle body fully closed. Rpms didnt get any lower than 1k however it didnt want to start...made a loud pop out the exhaust. Also when the fans turned on or i lifted the windows..it died.

Currently i left it at inverted 40-55c water temp. We'll see how it will behave from cold tomorrow but i dont have my hopes up.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:52 AM   #18
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******* hell triple, read the ******* posts. everything you ask and have problems with i have already tried tested and found what works.

don't want to be a dick but god damn.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man View Post
******* hell triple, read the ******* posts. everything you ask and have problems with i have already tried tested and found what works.

don't want to be a dick but god damn.
From the other thread what i'm getting is you were first running it at water temp 40-55 regular and was having the same problem as me. Then you tried inverted and it fixed it. Well it didnt for me.



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Re: Using factory ECU to control idle on NB8B plugin with e420c
Reply #19 on: June 15, 2011, 01:14:10 PM

Having a new problem with stock idle. when the car is cold it idles at 1000, once it gets warm it starts idling at 2000. no matter how much i close/open the idle screw or add/remove fuel the car makes it's self idle at 2000. guessing it has something to do with the aux 1 water temp 40/82 setting as it starts the go up after 40c and gets to 2000 after 82c








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Re: Using factory ECU to control idle on NB8B plugin with e420c
Reply #21 on: June 19, 2011, 11:08:38 AM

inverting aux 1 fixed all. was going to try it before i even saw the reply as it seem logical.

idles better then ever.
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Oh wow sweet!!! I guess i'll be crawling under the dash tomorrow!!! Kinda want to try it now but its 12:21 AM :(.


How do you guys have the rest of your aux outs and digital inputs setup? Also when do you switch to closed loop? 55`?
The aux out and dig in settings are in my post earlier linking the adaptronic forum.

Your car won't run closed loop idle settings because the stock ecu is controlling that. The idle tab is pretty much redundant with the idle jumpers set to the stock ecu. RPM's should drop to normal idle of 8-850 when it hits 55c (well mine does). Is aux 1 set to '1 high current 3a pwm capable', type - water temp, pwm and invert set off, low thresh 40 high thresh 55?

Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Well guys got some bad news. The car idles great when cold. I wait a bit for it to warm up. After i get going the rpm does not want to come down lower than 2.1k rpm.

I wonder which of my outputs can cause this or is it something else.

I'll go try setting aux 1 to none. Maybe maybe not...whats "The Select NB ECUs" mean anyways? NBB stock ecu? NBA stock ecu? Something else?
the select ecu is the new offering from adaptronic, if you have the 420c and a pnp harness the select ecu info won't apply to you.

Might be worth posting your map file for people to look at.
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