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Is AEM Infinity a piece of junk? Lets find out together!

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Is AEM Infinity a piece of junk? Lets find out together!

 
Old 11-26-2016, 10:59 AM
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Default Is AEM Infinity a piece of junk? Lets find out together!

Starting this thread because I think it would be useful to have all the information in one thread, instead of my build thread.

Yesterday I purchased an AEM Infinity 30-7110, which is Infinity 708, but plug and play for 03-06 350z. It was much cheaper than a regular Infinity 708 and my hope is that they are exactly the same minus the base map.

There are so many
AEM sells 5 different versions
  • Infinity 506 (aka Infinity 6) part # 30-7106
  • Infinity 508 (aka Infinity 8h) part # 30-7108
  • Infinity 708 (aka Infinity 8) part # 30-7101
  • Infinity 710 (aka Infinity 10) part # 30-7100
  • Infinity 712 (aka Infinity 12) part # 30-7111
Then they also sell several Application-specific versions
  • Infinity 708 for VQ35 part # 30‐7110
  • Infinity 710 for VQ35 part # 30‐7107
  • Infinity 708 for Porsche/BMW/zee Germans part # 30‐7109
  • Infinity 710 for Porsche/BMW/zee Germans part # 30‐7105
The one I bought is an application-specific ecu so I'll find out if it is same as a normal 708

See more: http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...tion_Guide.pdf

The reality rumor is that there are really only TWO different ECUs: 5 series and 7 series, with different features simply locked out via firmware.

vs




Is it better than a Megasquirt?
Stay tuned!
The general consensus is that the previous AEM ecus were crap. Since the Infinity hardware and software is not actually made by AEM, there's hope. The AEM documentation, which they wrote themselves, is rather awful and is full of spelling mistakes.

So, who REALLY made it?
The Infinity series ECUs were designed by Enginelab - https://enginelab.net - a small company out of Boulder, Colorado. AEM licenses them and sells them as their own. EngineLab website contains a lot of documentation, arguably better than that of AEM - see https://enginelab.net/documentation/

The AEM software is also based on EngineLab EL Console, which is available for free from https://enginelab.net/downloads (after you register)

What are those connectors?
The connectors are Molex MX123 series. These connectors are used on GM ECUs so there are plenty of places to buy them.
AEM also sells pin kits, but they are overpriced. I bought mine from Home - Current Performance WiringCurrent Performance Wiring - see blue and gray
Another place is from EngineLab - which does not require a crimper and includes a whooping 600 ft of wire - https://enginelab.net/product/el010-wk/

The blue connector for Infinity 5 is different from the blue connector on Infinity 7. I believe its an 80 pin connector

Finally, the connectors are well documented - https://enginelab.net/documentation/...tor_1_Pin_List

Last edited by soviet; 11-26-2016 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 11-26-2016, 11:54 AM
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In for junk.
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Old 11-26-2016, 12:36 PM
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Had a cousin run an Infinity EMS on his Celica GTS and he enjoyed it. Back then though the alternative was a Greddy eManage
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Old 11-26-2016, 12:45 PM
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I tuned a K24-powered S2000 on an Infinity box and was pretty impressed. The closed-loop AFR control is going to blow your mind - you almost don't have to tune the fuel map, the corrections are that fast and that good. I had every intention of doing a PnP harness for 99-00/01-05 Miatas until AEM refused to give me exclusivity on the trigger pattern I was going to essentially develop for them to get the car to run on stock triggers.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I tuned a K24-powered S2000 on an Infinity box and was pretty impressed. The closed-loop AFR control is going to blow your mind - you almost don't have to tune the fuel map, the corrections are that fast and that good. I had every intention of doing a PnP harness for 99-00/01-05 Miatas until AEM refused to give me exclusivity on the trigger pattern I was going to essentially develop for them to get the car to run on stock triggers.

Bad move on their part. Realistically how many units do you think you would have moved a year?
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:16 PM
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More findings

AEM "Infinity Tuner" is nothing more than an older version of EL Console. My guess is that the AEM development follows EL Console releases and lags behind by a release.
Infnity Tuner: 96.8492
EL Console: 97.8431



AEM include several plugins for some things. These plugins, labeled Wizards in Infinity Tuner, is how you change the regular settings



EL Console however exposes the "Channels" - which is the bread and butter of Inifinity/EngineLabs ECU processing. InfinityTuner hides the channels and does everything through "wizards".



I suspect the wizards can be imported into EL Console since they are just plugins. I looked, and the wizards are written in C#. This means they can be easily reverse engineered. I've done a lot of C# so this is familiar territory for me.

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Old 11-26-2016, 01:18 PM
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So is there a reason you can't just buy direct from engine labs?
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I had every intention of doing a PnP harness for 99-00/01-05 Miatas until AEM refused to give me exclusivity on the trigger pattern I was going to essentially develop for them to get the car to run on stock triggers.
From what I can see, it is a simple matter of writing a wizard for Miata and then publishing the model and layout. The wizards are written in C# and the code is a bajillion times more readable than megasquirt code.

Also AEM uses SQLite for storing configuration settings for the wizards. It potentially could be super-easy to add Miata

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Old 11-26-2016, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
So is there a reason you can't just buy direct from engine labs?
Its $3000 from EngineLab
They did an early adopter sale in March for $1500 but I missed it
I paid $1645 for mine and hopefully it is same thing (waiting on shipping)
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:40 PM
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man oh man, this thing better be seriously impressive to pay that much and still have to adapt it to a miata
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Old 11-26-2016, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
man oh man, this thing better be seriously impressive to pay that much and still have to adapt it to a miata
IMO the only way it makes sense over an MS3 Basic is if you take advantage of all of the advanced features (TC and DBW, specifically).
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 11-26-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
IMO the only way it makes sense over an MS3 Basic is if you take advantage of all of the advanced features (TC and DBW, specifically).
Both features that are being actively developed in the megasquirt codebase.
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Old 11-26-2016, 02:58 PM
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I've watched engines kill themselves over a bug in the Infinity, which to my knowledge, is still unresolved. There's another bug that causes the ECU to lockup, and because the ECU also has battery power on it, you need to disconnect the battery for it to recover. A significant feature of the ECU only works if you connect it to a hardcoded input. Another significant feature (much needed in the drag racing scene) would randomly completely shutdown one or two cylinders on a 5+ cylinder engine, and had gone unresolved for 4 years.

Also, the AEM support stuff are pretty pathetic. I was once called in to solve a non-starting car (it was on a freshly installed AEM EMS-4). The car would not get initial sync on a 60-2 trigger wheel. It would calculate RPM every now and then but it would not get a constant sync. For giggles, I brought a Universal MS3 in, connected power, ground and signal. It would also not sync. I watched the composite log, and measure 59 teeth instead of 58. I counted at least two more times, 59 every time. So I entered 60-1 in the TS settings, and sure enough, it synced perfectly. The AEM tuner emailed AEM, and - you better believe this - this is their answer (to the best of my memory as it was couple of years ago):

This can't be a 60-1 wheel because we have never seen one before. There is probably some other error, and the MS ECU is only able to sync up with a 60-1 setting because there are too many teeth and the MS has a slow processor, so entering more teeth somehow compensates for that.

No solution was given or any idea as to why the EMS-4 is not syncing. The customer ended up removing a tooth as the EMS-4 doesn't have configurable generic missing tooth wheel settings.
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The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 11-26-2016, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
The customer ended up removing a tooth as the EMS-4 doesn't have configurable generic missing tooth wheel settings.
It actually does, but AEM will never tell you how to find the settings. I had to build a custom tab based on AEMpro settings to set up the 12+1 wheels we used with EMS-4s.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 11-26-2016, 05:13 PM
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You guys have at least 3 months to talk **** about AEM because that's at least how long it'll take for my car to run. So pace yourselves!

Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
A significant feature of the ECU only works if you connect it to a hardcoded input.
There is no such thing as a hardcoded input if you are using EL Console. The AEM software simply hides the channels interface. I can see there being tons of bugs but unlike most people who want a plug and play solution, I know what I'm doing.
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by soviet View Post
but unlike most people ....... I know what I'm doing.
This is precisely why I'm excited about this thread. Because of all the people to fiddle with wiring and programming mumbo jumbo, you're qualified.

Also if this setup turns out to suck like we suspect, we will have confirmation
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Old 11-27-2016, 12:15 AM
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I am also interested in what you find out.
I don't know if Engine Lab did this for this guy, but the conversation is about a year old.
gemellocattivo.com ? View topic - EngineLab/AEM ECU
A couple of quotes bellow:

So the whole AEM infinity line is of EngineLab design and based on the engineLab code system. If you buy the AEM hardware and ask Jim nicely he'll set you up with access to the engine lab system at no charge and you can reprogram the ECU to do whatever you please. He told me all the 2 connector units are the same and have 12 fuel and 12 spark drivers, I'd just need to buy one and start programming it....very very tempting


What I was told the gen 1&2 are completely different from the infinity. The AEM interface on the infinity is very clunky and the control logic appears state of the art circa 1995 so probably very similar to what you are familiar with.

What the EngineLab interface does is basically wipe out everything AEM other than the name on the case and return it to EngineLab. In that state the underlying machine code is in place to read a crank and control injector, coil, and other drivers but there is no control logic at all, I would need to create all of that.......but as luck would have it I've spent a great deal of time over the past 4 years doing just that for my o5e ECU project but kept getting stuck with low level machine code issue....which are all solved int eh EngineLab setup.
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Old 11-27-2016, 12:21 AM
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Ok we have our first fail, or maybe a win depending on the outcome

Which wideband O2 sensor does the Infinity ECU support?So which one is it? Could it be both? The specs say that a Bosch CJ125 chip is used, which supports both 4.2 and 4.9. However, it looks like it matters what resistors are used. So did AEM change the resistors to use a shittier 4.2 sensor from the original 4.9 implementation? We'll find out eventually!

Edit: read more about the CJ125 chip and I'm thinking that the ecu may support both! Bosch LT4 is Bosch's own motorsports o2 controller, which is compatible with both 4.2 and 4.9 sensors, uses the CJ125 chip. Fingers crossed that the Infinity is the same way. This may be a win!

Conclusion: AEM needs to get their **** together



EngineLab:



CJ125 proposed circuit

Last edited by soviet; 11-27-2016 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 11-27-2016, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz View Post
I am also interested in what you find out.
I don't know if Engine Lab did this for this guy, but the conversation is about a year old.
gemellocattivo.com ? View topic - EngineLab/AEM ECU
Yep, thanks to that guy, all the EngineLab software is now public. AFAIK he is also working for EngineLab in writing documentation
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:25 AM
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An update!
I finally got the ECU. I made a small harness to connect the ECU to a 12V computer power supply so I can play with it outside of the garage.

I was able to flash AEM "generic" firmware on it, so that confirms that all the 7 series ECUs are basically the same, even if it is listed as application specific. I will of course confirm with the car running, but its a good sign.


Also was thinking about Infinity vs Megasquirt and one thing came to mind. With Infinity, you have full control over the fuel injection logic (using EngineLab firmware). So, you can use any sensors in the fuel calculations. That means you can have
  1. 2D table for injector deadtime vs voltage vs pressure (using battery voltage and pressure sensor as inputs)
  2. Linear table for injector flow vs fuel pressure (using fuel pressure sensor)
  3. Linear table for fuel density & fuel evaporation rate vs fuel temperature (using a fuel temperature from E85 sensor as input)
All this translates into more precise fuel control, and more things to play with.

Megasquirt only has basic voltage correction, and whatever else the dev team comes up with. Infinity with EngineLab firmware you can do whatever you want. Of course, if you just want plug & play its not for you.
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