The Ultimate Non Fuel Rail, Fuel Rail Replacement
 

Tim and Corky's latest creation. It came from needing to move the fuel rail for the supercharger system that we are about to start work on. It is designed to be the best fuel delivery system out there.

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216114.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216115.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216116.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216117.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216118.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4216120.JPG

Stephanie

That is super sweet!

oooh, i want it!

good grief, now that's gettin' serious!

We know. :firedevil

Stephanie

waiting for one Powercard for each injector....

In to watch and offer to beta test.

NO seriously.....

shit on toast thats awesome

Sweet design... Is this just a creation or been tested to work yet?

It would be a whole lot cooler if you used AN lines and fittings, and not rubber hose and hose claps, dont get me wrong it still is cool.

You could always add AN lines and fittings as long as the threads matched the fittings and you used an O-Ring Boss fitting to attach them. :D

I was thinking the same thing. Will that hose/hose clamp combo hold at 50-60psi of fuel pressure? I'd feel much safer an AN fittings.

Very cool concept though...

rofl. what do you think the stock fuel pressure is? when's the last time you had to replace one of those?

Random fact of the day: OEM fuel lines are rubber with hose clamps and hold those pressures just fine.

*edit* Damn it Brain. lol

Nice piece though. Whenever you guys get around to selling the intake manifolds, I'd remove the dual feed and swap to this at the same time. Make for an neat looking and functional intake side. When is this going to be ready for sale?

I unfortunately don't know the stock miata fuel system well enough. I know that on a DSM (yes, I know, it's not a miata), stock fuel pressure is between 38 and 43psi and there are no hose-clamped hoses on the pressure side. 43psi + 20psi of boost = 63psi fuel pressure.

the stock lines had no problem when I used to run 120psi of fuel pressure. ZEX dry kit + Pierburg pump.

those lines are rated at 300psi burst....

IIRC, Miatas run 43 psi stock and the NBs run 60ish.

On my Greddy, I was at one time running 5 psi with a 12:1 disc in my FPR. So my pressures were over 100 psi, and still no problems.

BTW - Your equation made me laugh, that's not how it works.

with a 1:1 FPR it does....

It does work as long as he has a 1:1 raising rate FPR like I have... But otherwise, you are correct.

Edit: Dammit, Brain beat me to it...

Yeah, but who runs one of those?


;)

*Disclaimer: I would never recommend doing this*

I ran up to 7 psi on my greddy before I switched over to bigger injectors so that was with a 12:1 disc in the Vortech so.. with stock fuel press. at say, 40psi or so + 84 psi added... yea, 124 psi (theoretically, though the pump probably was pushing all it could at 100) and although I knew in my head it was bad, the stock lines held just fine for as long as I ran it that way - about 9 months...

Haha... Pick me! Pick me! Ran well on my old DIY T25 setup... I'm only going to be using it now to keep my injectors a little smaller.

If I ever want to go over 250 whp with my 460's I will...

what do you think your stock fpr is?

That's what the ;) was for...

...I fail at expressing sarcasm over the interwebs.

Granted, the rubber can hold the pressure just fine. But the bling factor with -AN fittings would be cool. Corky did look at using aluminum fittings, but the price would increase over $125. If ya'll are that serious, I can price it out with AN fittings and stainless lines. But I would expect the price that we are shooting for to double.

My car gets pulled in later this week for some updates. We will be putting in on my car after Tim gets a chance to flow test it. We will still need another test mule though.
Stephanie

Thank you.

PM'd.

Nice! Be sure to post plenty of pics on this, as this is extremely interesting and I have not bought a fuel rail for my project yet. :D

I know the rubber lines are fine, but if your going to fab up somthing like that to display you sould make the fuel lines as nice as the rest of the piece. I see nice fab work and oem hoses and clamps just seems a little tossed together..

Ok maybe I'm slow, but I don't get it. How is this better than a regular fuel rail? To me it just looks more complicated with additional points of failure.

Not being a hater, I honestly don't see it.

Nice welds.

I'll take one of those.. haha.

I'll be in San Antonio next week if you need another test mule.

Seriously.

Not that I see the point, but for bling factor hard lines should be cheaper. They would make it look like a diesel too.

I don't know what I'm looking at in those pictures, other than the OEM regulator.

EDIT: ok after staring at it for a few secs longer I think I figured it out. Nice solution to your supercharger fitment issue; seems easy for the common folk to copy. Why would this be better than a "high flow"/large inner dia dual feed fuel rail, if space permits?

All that work... and they used the factory FPR? Wasn't there a BEGi FMU laying around somewhere in the shop?

More Photos.

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4226125.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...e/P4226125.JPG

It would, for sure, work with the MR FMU. Which is designed to replace the stock regulator.
Stephanie

Corky tells me it cannot be copied completely. Internally, on the spacers, is a fuel reservoir. It will hold the fuel available for when needed with for the next pulse.
Stephanie

Super nice work!!! Glad I haven't figured out my fuel solution yet, so I have options. :D

Bullshit, everything can be copied!

Anyways, I'll disagree to a certain extent on the 'ease of copy' reply but it doesn't really matter, you guys will sell it cheap enough to keep anyone from trying. Reservoir? You mean the ID of the metal tube spacer is larger than the ID of the hose I guess. Nice margarita marketing but at 80% duty cycle & 7000rpm that's not much time for the "reservoir" to fill...those lines best flow enough with or without a "reservoir". I'm guessing they will.

But what does matter is...why is this better if you can fit a larger fuel rail? You didn't answer that part.

I'd run it just cause it's different and looks trick even though it may not be better than what's already out there.

She didn't say it was better than a large bore rail, she said that it was necessary to relocate the fuel rail due to a new supercharger set up.

I guess your (Ben) definition of "best" with respect to fuel rails differs from mine. I think the best fuel rail should in theory flow more than the others, or perhaps doesn't heat up the fuel as much.

Stephanie, what do you mean by "best"?

Actually, she did say it was better...infact the best one out there.

One positive effect of this is that the fuel could be kept cooler if the aluminum block is insulated properly.

Believe it or not I was planning a similar layout of individual plumbing to the injectors for my machine...nice to see it done.

I personally like the idea of being able to run the fuel lines from a remote location in the engine bay to the injectors... Guess we will see how this works when they test it out.

I fail.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but it is "DESIGNED" to be the best. I did not say it was a final product, and the best one available. Tim and mrtonyg are misinterpreting. That may be your spin of what I said, but that is not what was intended. That means that issues may be found that need to be addressed, etc... Will it be better that a dual feed, larger bore? Do not know yet. What about a larger fuel pump? Do not know yet. Flow testing will determine that.

Stephanie

Ok, so what about the design is supposed to make this better than the existing fuel rail solutions already available? Aside from the packaging, which depending on your needs could be a large improvement.

If someone posted a picture of a laptop saying it was designed to be the best laptop currently available, people would expect a laundry list of improvements and innovations to back up the design claim, especially in the absence of performance data. This is no different is it?

:2cents:

Sorry if it sounds like I'm busting your balls. Forgive me for asking what about the design makes it the best. I know you are not the one who designed it and are just typing what the others there (Tim/Corky?) tell you to.

If it is "designed" to be the best, then logically the designer designed something about it in order to make it the best. What about this was "designed" to be better than other fuel rails? A "reservoir" above each injector? In a regular fuel rail the fuel rail is a reservior. Balanced flow? Yeah ok maybe. Cooler fuel? Probably. Either of the last two would be acceptable answers to me.

I imagine in reality it was designed to allow fuel to get to the injectors when a regular fuel rail didn't fit, and at the time the idea that it would be the "best fuel rail" had nothing to do with the design. :confused:

Yes, ultimately actual measured data would prove the design is better or not.

i'm not really getting it, instead of reinventing the fuel rail with way more points of failure and more expense....why not modify your supercharger design to allow the use of the existing rail? unless it's just not possible for some reason?

We are using a larger supercharger. It is not possible.

As for re-inventing the fuel rail, the expense part is negligible, as it will not be that expensive. Cheaper than if you go buy any aftermarket fuel rail. Points of failure is dependant upon installer. Let's be honest here, how many people have actually busted a fuel line on their car? I'd wager there are not many...
Stephanie

Awaiting flow characteristics... :D

So this is going to be a sub $200 solution?

Stephanie - Care to share any more information on the new SC system and what if any worthwhile upgrades may be available for existing MOAB cars

Wonder what the parasitic loss is on that one..... :)

You can't say that then leave us/me hanging, spill it....

That is the plan.
Stephanie

I will post a new article in the current projects section of the BEGI website. Give me a few days to gather photos of what has been done.
Stephanie

in for results! this is a cool piece!