Anotha one. 2560 1.8
 

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...85c3f86a67.png
Stock 1.8, Fm2 kit, 2560r, ID725's, FM big spark kit. Pretty happy with numbers on a Mustang dyno. Now if I can just make it to the track to validate..

EDIT: The car also has a yonaka catback, It's a 2.5 inch.

Looks good :)
I'll check your logs and tune today

Are you running EBC?

Looks good man!

I've seen your posts in the MassMiata group!

would have been awesome to see what the car made before he turned it down :)

He turned down boost for that run?

Not boost, but timing and fuel. Well, kind of. I e-tuned this car, and recently he had a shop throw it on the dyon, the tuner/shop basically lowered timing by like .5-1 and richened up fuel by like .3 so probably a few hp, nothing drastic. He's just a few keystrokes away from 250hp. Overall really solid plot and OP loves it

Yea running a diyautotune EBC. I think I'm just a dyno jet run away from 250hp+. :rofl: There's a dyno jet that's local to me, seems to read on the high side. I'll throw it on there when it gets colder out to get a few extra "internet penis points" as I like to call them haha. Only thing that matters now is to take it down a strip. I should expect 108-110mph if I'm assuming correct?

106-107 would be my guess. My msm trapped 106 and put down 230 dynojet/ 210 mustang.

I didn't see a build thread for this car. What exhaust manifold are you using?

Intercooler and intake setup?

Thaaanks.

Read post #1 :)

​​​​​​
Everything except the injectors and boost controller is from the flyin Miata fm2 kit. Injectors I got "used" only 1k miles on them and then they were cleaned and flow tested. I would make the worst build log if I wanted to make one. I never take any pics when working on the car, plus it's a pretty much cookie cutter build.

Yeah... woops. Must have looked at that post 4 times and missed that line of mods every time... #foreverblond


Thanks for the detail, sorry for making you write them. Good numbers, especially at the very top. Usually I see power nosediving well before 7k. Yours holds nice and steady. I'm guessing that has something to do with the ebc tuning? Unless you have a flat top im.

Its an all stock 94 motor so no flat top, and it's 15psi steady so it's not some trickery of adding boost taper to hold power. Dunno why it holds so nicely.

It's because a 2560 is fine at holding this amount of boost. I don't know the point where it starts to drop off but I would guess a couple more psi.

Could be the timing up top too, no? 94 has the lowest compression 1.8 pistons @8.8:1. Would make for a more aggressive map than say... an nb1 or nb2.

I'm guessing Miner tuned it, huh? His dyno is referred to as the heartbreaker dyno for a reason. That's a very respectable all around. Solid!

From my experience tuning my own car, timing did nothing to help spool or keep boost pressure. Exhaust gas flow is what matters.

Would you post your VE table? I'm interested how VE changes up top as torque drops off.

my 2560 held steady until about 18.5 psi. Above that, it would taper down to 18.5 as rpm climbed. By then it was probably spitting fire anyway.

Yea, Miner tuned it, when i asked him about possible power output he said "low 200's" so I was surprised when he said it made 240. For the hell of it I'm interested in taking it to Baystate Dyno, see what their dynojet spits out, they seem to read really high. And maybe I'm wrong, I thought 94-?? had 9.0 compression ratio.

Here's my spark, VE, and AFR table. The spark map is bassically the one that came with the DIY basemap, just rounded to nearest .5 increments as stated earlier. Also, how would the VE show torque loss? its flowing the same amount of boost, and building more horsepower the higher the RPM, so it never really loses any VE. Unless my understanding of tuning is completely wrong?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a27244265b.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...afb6a502a9.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6ffbfe5fb7.png

I didn't think this thread was going to be so popular.. :rofl: Maybe I should make a half assed build thread.

Join us

Sshamrockk:

I ask about VE table as mine is dipping back down at the high loads above 135kPa and 5500. I am just doing a mental experiment as to why before I actually begin physical diagnosis.

When I rebuilt my manifold, and set the car back up, I had also redone (2) welds on the hot side charge piping.

Then, first time I ran it up, when I let up, something went "bang". I don't know if that was something major or something like a V-Band adjusting.

So, I'm on a 1999 with a baby turbo, and suspect the following:
Charge piping leak
Turbo out of air (to right of choke line) (though I don't think I'm there yet)
Damage to turbine. (though it still spools the same as before when punched at 4kRPM)
Damage to CAT (but see damage to turbine
VICS broken

But also, I think it reasonable to believe that running out of Intake or Exhaust efficiency would cause VE to go down.

I will not be looking into this for cause until mid-September, but was wanting to see what your 1994, poorer intake, and larger turbo, but more boost, table looked like. For Science, not to confuse.

There is nothing wrong with what you're describing. I see it on many miata's, including ones with a big ol EFR6758 :)

The BP really runs out of steam past 6 grand, and many smaller turbo setups like yours the VE numbers drop past peak power because the car isn't flowing more air, so it doesn't need more fuel.

I think that is likely as well. I will be very interested in what the car looks like on a true dyno. The little guy is serving me well.

Yeah, my car requires less fuel past 6 grand. I think unless you have cams and a port, that's pretty normal.

I'm curious why he doesn't have you on any cruise cells for afr target. You could easily be in the 15s for some of the highway cruise areas, no?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a27244265b.png
Brains basemap has a solid chunk in the 15's from 20-70 kpa range at 1700-5300.

And Vlad, you said you'd expect 106 for trap speed since your car did the same at 210 mustang. Matt's dyno is a mustang dyno, so this is 240 on a mustang!

​​​​​​OP, do you have a knock sensor? If you do, do you have any logs doing a pull? Thanks!

Question for the experienced members... How would you say that timing map compares to the 'average' turbo miata table. Brain's basemap seemed a lot more conservative than this and I believe it was y8s's street map. That said Matt can probably monitor knock in real time while tuning, so I'm a bit surprised that this is just DIY's basemap and not one that has been tuned specifically for this purpose. Any thoughts? I'm going to pull up DIY's maps for the NB1 and compare since the compression is different.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...afb6a502a9.png

This is from the miataturbo wiki:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fba28352d6.jpg

I believe 94 was 8.8 and then the rest of the NA8s were 9.0. The NB1 moved to 9.5.

It wouldnt hurt to change my cruise cells, its tempting to squeeze out as much fuel economy as possible, since going turbo its taken a huge hit, partially from my heavy right foot im sure. But no knock sensor, didnt see the need to add one with a stock motor, and somewhat conservative tune.

I've been averaging 26ish mpg all around use. Should go up with the hard top.

14.7 is fine for cruise, that's what many of us run. Some of us even have a special dash in tuner studio to learn what gives us the best mileage. Some folks would rather not put more NOX in the air.

Don't listen to the clit, I have warned many of you before.

/\ all true

15.5AFR is the best for mileage. You can target that when cruising.

Share info on the special dash.

I'm presently running the 15.5 referenced by Shuiend. I have no idea what my gas mileage is at cruise, because my daily is 11 miles and my foot is heavy.

Here's mine, I might make a few things bigger. I made it so I could glance with my laptop on the passenger floor.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ca36b07315.png

yeah if you wanna get all scientific about it, above are some very helpful things to monitor/log. ultimately you're balancing torque/efficiency with pulsewidths or amount of fuel injected. it's not just a matter of running the leanest mixture, because if you're not getting maximum torque then you're giving more throttle more of the time, which results in more fuel being used ultimately

I think Perez tried something like that as well. Run same place at same speed and monitor pulse width (and assuming equal power). I was kind of expecting some sort of XYZ plotting of the parameters.

Dyno would still seem the best / only way to truly tune for maximum economy. That was Hustler's conclusion IIRC. Year's back I read so much MT.net, and now I get some things confused.

Yep this has a lot to do with it. There are several good books you can find on tuning that go into details far deeper. What I have seen consistently across them all has always been 15.5AFR at cruise for best MPG.

It was Hustler who was watching PW to get the best mileage. Then I crashed that car into a guard rail.

Would anyone mind commenting on the spark map? Just in relation to brains basemap...
To my amateur eyes it looks like the map used here is even more conservative. It's obviously making good power, but is the relative lack of spark advance what's causing the drop in torque pretty early on?

I'm also interested in seeing other spark maps from similar builds, not just brains map..

My comment is, I don't think many of us actually use a base timing map. We all did for a short while, but after the first drive and log, we changed it. And never looked back.

I am about to run a different motor in my car, but I won't load some base tune. I am going to run a recent tune and see what this motor wants different, then adjust it accordingly.

Get your car tuned by someone or spend the time learning how to do it yourself? Or else a basemap is really all that your car need, maybe retard the 2-3k +100kpa slightly for 91oct.

Honestly I was expecting some kind of tuning of the spark map.. I run 93 oct so the current map is probably ridiculously safe, but it makes plenty of power, and my driving habits keep me a close to boost threshold, no noticeable lag. Only issue i have with he tune is it can be jerky at low rpm when in traffic, and when it gets colder outside i was hitting over-boost, so I had to lower the duty cycle of the boost controller, so during the day when its warmer, i'm running less boost than desired.. Might up overboost protection by 1-2kpa so I can keep the original duty cycle settings.

just switch to closed loop boost control and it will adjust for you :)

I was also a little bit surprised the shop actually lowered the timing (though only a bit) over my e-tune. That was my first comment to you after the tune. I was expecting them to tune it with det cans and add at least 2-3* in various places. I thought my tune was too conservative lol

But who cares, car is fun and tune is super conservative, that's a good combination :)

Do tell, I didnt know that was an option?

I forgot: are you on ms3 1.4.0 or newer?
I have a thread specifically about closed loop I just recently made, if so :)

Ms2.. :td: was a slight noob when I was picking a ms..

My friend who worked at Garrett and Vortech when we were young would laugh at us.
No problem with MS2, Vlad can help you anyway.

But I agree with Vlad and I am surprised that the tuner didn't add timing. My old friend would say, "It's all bull, anyway, of course they didn't add any timing, do you think you can hear any detonation when a car is running a dyno next to you?"
:rofl:
He's absolutely correct.

Oops, sorry double post.
:beer:

Does the thread still apply to MS2, I read it very briefly.

I'm not sure tbh, let me pull up your tune/project when I have some time and poke around

Just shoot me a text when you get into it, if I have some time I can poke around and get my high low values of my Ebc. It's pretty disappointing to see 11-12 psi during the day when it's warms, and then when it gets colder at night hitting 15-16..

Hope I did this right. But heres my first autocross event with the turbo setup a few weeks back. Only my third event in this car, and 4th ever event.

Seems like you have a lot of understeer, but hard to tell. I don't know your suspension setup, other than your sig, but try a little more rear ride height.

I was very unhappy with how the car handled that day, my last event I was in a lower class, but had a good enough time to place me 3rd in the class I was running that day. I finished 15th in my class, maybe it was a tougher crowd? But the car felt very loose, it still picks up a wheel in the rear, causing the lifted wheel to spin, I might try disconnecting my rear sway bar to remedy that issue. As for ride height, it's probably all over the place, I just eye balled it when I installed the coilovers. The plan is to pick up some xidas next year after I buy everything I need to prep for the track.

Start saving now. I will have a set of Gen2 Xida's 700/400 for sale probably in October. Less then 1000 street miles on them, only selling because I will be moving up to Xida XL Ace.

Hmm, let me know, I daily the car when it's not winter, so 700/400 is the rates I was going to buy. I wanted to buy a BBK before coils, but they car wait, I have all winter to buy everything I need to bring it to the track.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...88bd763a83.jpg

Well, I'm a little disappointed with my first time at the track. My second of four runs was my best, but wasn't my best launch. Even with flatfoot shifting I manged to miss 2nd my third and fourth run. I was expecting to run 13.0@110. With a better launch, and an actual working tach to know when to shift would probably bring me to my 13.0, but I'm 5mph off where I thought I should be.

While at the track I turned up my overboost protection and boost duty trying to get a little more power to help, but I missed 2nd both times after that. But I did data log one of those runs. Car was tuned for 15 psi, since then I'v upped the boost duty and bit, so I was expecting 17psi tapering up to redline, upon looking at the log it was holding steady at 183kpa.. I wasn't able to watch the boost gauge going down the strip to see if they matched up. I didn't have time to play around with it as we got rained out. But in the way home and that night, I was hitting 17psi no problem. So I'm assuming it was low because of heat soak? The DA at the time was around 1500 also.

​​​​​​In the end I had fun, probably won't be back this year. Just have another autocross coming up and the season should close out for me.

Here's all my time slips from the day, reading left to right in order of runs.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...34ae23e15a.jpg

I was reallllly close :)
All that matters is you had fun :)

Yea you were close, I didn't belive you because I have another 30 horse on your msm. Guess there's other variables. Was fun, but I think autocross is more my thing. Until I hit a track next season.. Then I might not wanna go back to autocross.

What E.T.?

way too hard to predict et so I usually don't.