Back From the Dead Build Thread
So a new house (and associated wannabe handyman projects) plus a 2-year-old have kept me from moving this project forward with much speed. However, I'm almost ready to kick off the built motor swap. Ultimate plan here is to find the limit of my Flow Force injectors, which I'm hoping will be in the 300whp territory. 95% street toy, occasional HPDE. Probably do a 7500rpm rev limit. Looking for a sanity check here and see if I've forgotten anything:
Built bottom end, bought unused from a member - reportedly JE pistons 9:1, Eagle rods, possibly ACL bearings. Block decked and honed and everything assembled.
Head, bought unused from a member - reportedly new OEM valves and lifters, supertech single springs. A half-assed port.
APR head bolts, new.
My plan is to have a shop check the clearances on the bottom end, and tell me what's actually in there while they are at it. I'll also have them plane the head. Any good recommendations for a shop to do this work anywhere between Palo Alto and Monterey?
Once that's done, I'm going to put it together, and then once I'm ready to pull the engine from my car, swap over the intake and fueling bits and the oil pan. I'm also considering re-using my oil pump. I know there is much debate here about that, but I'd love to avoid paying the $400 for a BE pump. Especially considering everything else for this build cost me like $1200. Thoughts?
Finally, what am I missing that I'll smack my forehead when I'm halfway through? Probably timing belt and stuff...
Built bottom end, bought unused from a member - reportedly JE pistons 9:1, Eagle rods, possibly ACL bearings. Block decked and honed and everything assembled.
Head, bought unused from a member - reportedly new OEM valves and lifters, supertech single springs. A half-assed port.
APR head bolts, new.
My plan is to have a shop check the clearances on the bottom end, and tell me what's actually in there while they are at it. I'll also have them plane the head. Any good recommendations for a shop to do this work anywhere between Palo Alto and Monterey?
Once that's done, I'm going to put it together, and then once I'm ready to pull the engine from my car, swap over the intake and fueling bits and the oil pan. I'm also considering re-using my oil pump. I know there is much debate here about that, but I'd love to avoid paying the $400 for a BE pump. Especially considering everything else for this build cost me like $1200. Thoughts?
Finally, what am I missing that I'll smack my forehead when I'm halfway through? Probably timing belt and stuff...
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Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2014
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From: Bainbridge Island, WA
Originally Posted by patsmx5
I've always reused pumps, never had a problem. It is the most well lubricated part in the motor, not exactly something that's going to wear out easily.
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You also have to remember who Pat is and what he does with his car.
I am in the camp with Savington and would not reuse and oil pump. Go for the BE pump now and just be done with it. Yes it costs a bit more up front, but as someone who has had multiple oiling issues with my built motors, long term it is worth it.
I am in the camp with Savington and would not reuse and oil pump. Go for the BE pump now and just be done with it. Yes it costs a bit more up front, but as someone who has had multiple oiling issues with my built motors, long term it is worth it.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Lake Forest, CA
You keep saying stuff like that, when you know full well everyone is talking about failures while using the car on a track (cooked spaghetti track not uncooked spaghetti). Your lack of failures are a result of lack of road course usage. It is not shocking.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Lake Forest, CA
I don't know if I need to respond to that comment
does anyone need me to explain why road course is harder on the car and creates more failures at lower HP levels than drag racing?
does anyone need me to explain why road course is harder on the car and creates more failures at lower HP levels than drag racing?
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No who cares? Some people build street cars, not track cars. Track cars have tons of stuff done I don't have done for the same reason, cause I don't need it. It's no secret that street cars and track cars are totally different, and have different failures from use. In fact that's well documented. Now where is my popcorn...
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Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Lake Forest, CA
I'm not saying the way I use my car is better than the way you use your car. All i'm saying is that it's no mystery why several of your parts haven't failed while others have in track use. And it does have to do with power and RPM.
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Agree so far?
I would "speculate" that high HP and high RPM's would load the crankshaft more, and stress the gears on the crank more. And by speculate, I mean that's a fact. If you believe this to be false, stop reading.
If this crazy idea of "higher HP and RPMs increases flex of the crank" has any truth to it, then I stress OP gears higher than almost anybody.
Your argument "And it does have to do with power and RPM" is that of fatigue failure (extended amount of time at high RPM fatigue fails the gears on curvy tracks, with enough power to flex it enough). Very possible, but if so I should have broken a pump several times by now as I've stressed mine way above the level that (with extended time on a curvy track) fails gears from fatigue.
I THINK that my harmonic damper is dampening vibrations on the crank shaft, and that is what is keeping my crank/bearings/oil pump from showing any signs of wear and no failures at all. That's my theory.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Lake Forest, CA
It's not just fatigue failures from a certain number of cycles at a certain load, it's fatigue+heat failures from many cycles at high load without cooling off in between loads. That's why 100 runs down the drag strip over a couple years or whatever might not break something that would break in a single track day, or even a single 20 minute session at full pace.
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It's not just fatigue failures from a certain number of cycles at a certain load, it's fatigue+heat failures from many cycles at high load without cooling off in between loads. That's why 100 runs down the drag strip over a couple years or whatever might not break something that would break in a single track day, or even a single 20 minute session at full pace.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Lake Forest, CA
I'm not necessarily referring to OP gears specifically, though I recognize that's what started this thread drift. Is that not a reasonable idea, though? I mean, does it not make sense that sustained high RPM high load use would make those parts more likely to fail?
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A quick search in sintered steel shows it's typically annealed at 400*F. So if oil temps are close to 400*F I could see that affecting the gears strength.
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Pat, you don't get it. You've shown over and over that you never will. I think it's easier to just say that you're wrong, yet again, and not waste my time trying to explain why.
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