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Churboner Build (not really...)
Parts are starting to roll in now so thought I'd finally start my first build thread and attempt to keep things somewhat regularly updated. I'm definitely no expert and I'm here to learn so any advice is welcome. I'll try not to be so retarded as I know there's a ton of experience here on MT.
Background: - First time building a motor, first time going FI, first time using standalone (re: noob) - Chassis is '92 and is my winter beater...for now. This is the 2nd and last winter it'll see. It's obviously not the best condition to build on since there's rust here and there, but I'm using it to learn on and one day hope to use it as a welding guinea pig - Motor is a BP05 from a friend. At some point it was imported in and there's 0 history available. It's either a '94 or '95 and seems to be pretty low mileage Goals: - This is purely a learning project for both building and tracking - Part time daily/weekender, most time track car - Reliability a must - Will be happy with ~220-240whp And with the last 2 goals, referencing fast/cheap/reliable rule of thumb, here comes the inevitable wallet rapage (sorry for the length, but trying to keep this updated as my master parts list): Block - 1mm overbore, plateau hone, and deck Head- Supertech 84mm / 8.6:1 pistons and rings (0.0033 ptw clearance) - Manley rods - ACL race main & rod / std thrust bearings - ARP main and head studs - New freeze plugs - BE street pump w/1 shim (~67 psi) - Gates WP - OE gaskets - SuperMiata harmonic damper w/12+1 wheel - MazdaComp mounts - -4AN turbo feed from block port - -10AN turbo drain to pan - Decked and cleaned only Ignition- Stock valvetrain - Supertech viton valve seals - Stock cams - Toda cam gears - Gates kevlar belt - OE gaskets - Protege VC w/modified PCV - LS2 coils Fuel- DIY wires from Summit - NGK BKR7E-11 plugs - DIY dual feed rail Intake- 550cc RX7 injectors or considering FIC 525cc EV14's - Considering Walbro 190hp - Stock manifold w/EGR & canister delete Exhaust- Skunk2 64mm TB - Synapse Synchronic diverter valve (VTA config) - CX Racing intercooler (21x5.5x2.5 core / 28x5.5x2.5 overall) - 2" DIY piping 1) Manifold - Mild steel ramhorn bottom mount 2) Churbo- T3 flanged (w/TSE inconel kit) - 2 bolt EWG to be modified to v-band for 38mm Tial MV-S - Ceramic coated - Comp A/R: 0.42 3) Artech DP- Comp diameters: 43.20 / 60.41 - Exh A/R: 0.48 - Turbine diameters: 45.74 / 62.86 - 2.5" V-band outlet (exhaust to continue as 2.5") - IWG removed and flapper to be welded - EWG will have dump tube 4) High Flow Cat / Artech Test Pipe- Innovate MTX-L AFR kit - Will v-band this to be able to swap test pipe on at track 5) Artech Mid Pipe- 1 resonator but undecided which one and size 6) Axle Back- Undecided which muffler to run (maybe just the usual magnaflow everyone runs) - Will also v-band this portion to be able to swap a turn down pipe on at track EMS - Enhanced MS2 from Reverant Cooling- Mishimoto dual row rad, fans, t-stat Drivetrain- Coolant reroute (DIY) - Considering oil cooler setup - ACT clutch kit (ZM2-XTSS) and FW (600255) Suspension / Steering- 5 speed, will ride it to the ground - 1.6 open, will ride it until explosion (plan to replace w/torsen) - PS delete Chassis- BC coils (yeah I know, don't hate...I got them for a good deal so will ride these for now and save for Xidas most likely) - Would like to upgrade sway bars, just waiting on a good deal at the right time - EGR roll cage Brakes / Wheels / Tires- Would like to get frame rail reinforcements at some point - Planning on picking up 949's Wilwood BBK kit Pics to come tomorrow...- Planning on usual 15x9 6ul's on 225/45 RS3s for street/track - Have 15x7 +12 MSW Nuova S3's on 205/50 R888s I use for the E30 which I may use for Miata too |
Welcome. Brakes?
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Yeah good call I forgot that..added it in now. TBH it was getting pretty late and I meant to hit preview post but hit the submit instead so I just said meh and called it a night.
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Cool. We need pix.
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Definitely go with the EV14 fuel injectors if you can swing it
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Ok so I'll try to make it up for posting so much writing. Here's some history:
Bone stock (both cars) back in 2011: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Last June this lady in a CR-V wanted it up the ass, so I gave it to her. Luckily she didn't charge me so I got let off (small scuff to her RR bumper undercover). As you can see I didn't fare so well...Rad support bent back and down, RH lamp assy toast, hood, bumper, done: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Around the same time, someone locally understeered and flew off an off ramp into a ditch, so he was parting out. Score. Cut out their rad support and snagged the bumper (WHY ARE THERE SO MANY RED MIATAS!) and welded new support on: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 I guess you can call it self-discipline, or just cheap. Didn't want to pay a body shop for the job so I just made do with what I had. Sanding was such a bitch but I was still grateful the Miata bumper is relatively simple. Went down as much as I could to OE primer: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Primed back up: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Then I thought of something stupid. Maybe if I use black sandable primer and load it up, I can wet sand back down and still be left with black: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Nope...this stuff was so shitty I could almost rub it off by hand. So I got as much of it off and proceeded to base: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Final clear and now good to go (overspray clean up was also a PITA. Did I mention how much I love body work? :P): https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Oh and randomly came across some dude in the middle of nowhere selling some mint Apache IV's for $100! Snagged those up quicktime. He used to run them on his E21 and I don't think he had any idea how much they were really worth: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Tires are garbage but just threw it on the Miata to roll around on. Will probably transfer Apache's to E30. Bent hood back as best as I could and threw new bumper on (eventually replaced hood with a slightly scratched OE alum & black one): https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Decided to finally throw in my EGR roll cage too. Fitment was alright. Had to grind out LH seat belt tower hole to get it lined up laterally but it worked out ok in the end: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Oh and I was making a license plate brkt and grinder decided to quit. $20 for 4 years of service ain't too bad! Gear teeth were totally fubar'd: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Local NB owner was selling his BC coils. Jumped on a good deal and picked them up: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Cruised out of town to swap hoods with some farmer that was hoarding FC's and Miatas. Met up with my buddy to chill at another friend's shop for a bit: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Picked up a Monte Carlo. Disappointed in the gouges around the horn button but not a deal breaker to me: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360532923 Man uploading pics is taking forever. Engine stuff next: |
Originally Posted by wittyworks
(Post 977445)
Definitely go with the EV14 fuel injectors if you can swing it
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Ok so onto teardown. My friend had already disassembled the head so just the block was left.
Block was already cleaned by hand and looked pretty promising: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Don't know if this is traditional but had to figure out a way to loosen crank bolt so made up this angle iron piece to bolt to flywheel and brace against engine stand. Worked like a charm: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Found a nice surprise also...WTF where's the key? I still can't really think of how or why this happened: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Crank had a bit of damage on one of the oil pump drive flats. Machine shop will rework it for me: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Pistons and bores all seem pretty consistent and can't see anything abnormal. The shop I dropped it off at noted that the motor appeared to be very low mileage so that was good to hear: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 I think the VC confirms that too. Taking off the baffle plates, it looks pretty damn clean inside: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 But there's a crack along the whole front exh cam gear section (NBD, was going to grind out if I used it), a hole in the RR RH hump section, and a caved in section beside Mazda: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 I didn't feel like reworking all this so I jumped on a Protege valve cover: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 The RR RH vent port looks good but as you can see the actual PCV section up front is ass. I have a feeling it's because of the way the entry baffle design is and I'm thinking of somehow modifying it so I can still use the PCV port but just route to catch can without filling it so quick (more detail on this later):https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 So what do you guys do for valve cleaning usually? Any recommendations? https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Oh and here's some more pics of parts: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Shoutout to Andrew (TSE) for all the rebuild parts: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Supertech's were nicely packaged: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Same old, nothing new. Definitely understand the concern for how thin that wall is near intake valve relief: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Researched a lot for PTW clearance. Found a MT thread with Andrew mentioning 0.003 for light boost (<300whp) and 0.0035 for heavy track use or high hp. Called Supertech because they only list NA/nitrous app and they recommended 0.0004-0.0008 larger than their spec, which basically puts it at 0.0032-0.0036. So I chose 0.0033 w/e: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 BE Pump sheet: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 This past Friday we had snowmageddon hit. This was what I woke up to, fuuuu. Struggled to get out of the complex because there's an uphill section after a turn but made it to work. 6 roundabouts to the highway always make my commutes a lot of fun: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 That evening I decided to trek it out to pick up a bunch of parts. Slightly sketchy driving 1/4 throttle on black ice on the freeway but fun and nonetheless worth the 3h drive effort: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 Yesterday spent some time running the E30, cleaning parts, and started to prep fuel rail: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360535055 |
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Ok now for churbo pics:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 I disassembled it because I wanted to learn more about the CHRA since I tend to learn best hands on. So here's what I noticed: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 Almost seems like turbo was made with used parts or maybe they cycle them as part of production. The grease or whatever used is super high in viscosity and appears to be used: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 So what's with the notch at the back by the hex? Is that typically the location used to balance CHRA? Seems like a huge chunk missing... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 Hardware is pretty crappy, especially those small 5/16's holding comp backing plate. Will definitely everything with a higher grade. Also considering tacking up the bolts that hold the V-band outlet cover to the turbine housing: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 This is one thing that's sketching me out but I may just run it and monitor. The seal seems to be poor quality but after removing some of the flash, the shop I'm working with took a look and said it should be fine to use: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360537265 So for re-assy, I've read somewhere else that as a rule of thumb I should target about 1/4 turn after nut's snugged up? Besides the usual of loctite and t-handle, is the 1/4 turn rule good enough? I was planning to cross-check with the etched witness mark on the nut/comp wheel anyway but just wondering what you guys typically do for torque. |
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Oh ok thanks good to know. If your inducer blades are longer than the Garretts, maybe the churbine housing has a larger cross sectional area or something. Have you compared housings and notice any radius difference like the wheels? Either that or maybe exducer's a different size and Garrett outlet won't fit exducer. I'm not surprised it's not compatible...
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I forgot to mention this for the churbo. Check this out. FWIW, noticed there were 3 mounting holes that weren't blind on comp housing. Went right through into the housing wtf? NBD but guess I'll just throw a layer of teflon tape and bolt her back up. Is this normal for name brand turbos too?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360552205 |
One of my garrett t25 wastegate mounting bolts goes through the compressor housing.
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Originally Posted by rccote
(Post 977514)
Pretty sure I have that same chinese turbo. Those seals looked the same and sealed fine on mine. Notch by the hex is balancing. I am confused by this turbo since the turbine will not fit into my .48 garrett turbine housing yet it claims to be .48 :confused: Inducer blades are visibly longer than the garrett's.
The turbine wheel is different. The inducer is like 18mm taller in diameter. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360595746 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360595746 FWIW, this turbo is on par if not better than garrett's 1970s quality. If you doubt it, don't crack open a real garrett and expect anything better. everything you're pointing out is common on a real Garrett. I can snap pics of the exact same shit you're complaining about. The grease or whatever used is super high in viscosity and appears to be used: So what's with the notch at the back by the hex? Is that typically the location used to balance CHRA? Seems like a huge chunk missing... Hardware is pretty crappy, especially those small 5/16's holding comp backing plate. Will definitely everything with a higher grade. Also considering tacking up the bolts that hold the V-band outlet cover to the turbine housing: This is one thing that's sketching me out but I may just run it and monitor. The seal seems to be poor quality but after removing some of the flash, the shop I'm working with took a look and said it should be fine to use: |
Thanks Brain. On the topic of grease/assy lube, I was just pointing out the fact that it didn't seem so new and was speculating if it was used before. No biggie I'll use it regardless.
Anyway, better safe than sorry right but good to know some of your pointers on the hardware/seals... In other news, update from machine shop today. Parts are ready for pickup but I won't have time until Feb 23 so a bit of a wait until next update. |
very nice build! its cool to see another built canadian miata
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^Thanks Neil.
Ok so some updates but nothing too exciting. Ordered a bunch of stuff. FM rails, FIC 525s, Walbro 190 pump, harmonic damper, 12+1 wheel, CX racing intercooler kit, oil cooler kit, plugs, EBC, exh mani stud kit. Got the motor back from machining. Block and head turned out great, got my std ACL race brgs, head and oil pan cleaned up nicely. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 Work area. Kind of crowded but made some space recently: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 I think I got the wrong hardware kit sent with the TB. Seem to be missing TPS rotor & adapter, have wrong IACV adapter, etc. Asking Skunk2 to confirm but this is what I have: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 And this is what's on their site: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 Borrowed a scale from a buddy and started to balance things. First up were the pistons - 8.6:1, 84mm Supertechs. 1) Did a quick repeatability check to ensure scale was good to go. No issues here even turning on and off. 2) Initial msmts: P1 - 283.4 P2 - 282.8 P3 - 283.1 P4 - 282.8 All clips weighed in at 0.8. I had 97.6, 98.1, 98.1, 97.8 for the wrist pins. Really lucked out and did some mixing to end up with the following final piston/pin combo: 1 - 381.0 2 - 380.9 3 - 380.9 4 - 380.9 Pretty impressed. Didn't have to touch a thing and got within 0.1 so that's done. Onto the rods. Shopped around a surplus store to try and make my own balancer. Came across this mystery box. Shook it around and feels about 1/4 full. Too cheap to find out what it is really. It's in a section surrounded by door hinges, bearings, brackets, etc. I have a feeling I'd end up with a box of house related items which would be of no value: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 After hunting around for some nylon and hustling a dude off the lathe at the machine shop on campus, managed to get this setup: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457288 I generally checked it out on the weekend and too sketched out with current repeatability. Even slight side to side variation I get >1g change. I'm going to move ahead and hard mount the big end support, clamp down both base plates to table (no carpet of course), and make sure big and small ends are level after hard mounted, and clamp them at correct big/small end pitch to square everything up and then re-check repeatability. |
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Also started to design my coolant reroute spacer. First off, I'm not a fan of paper gaskets. Much prefer o-rings or ring seals.
No biggie on head side I can machine a channel there. For the firewall side mating to the Kia water neck, I don't have too much space between water neck bore and mounting bolt holes and t-stat overlaps too. I wanted to find a 'C' section square ring seal but no o-ring stores carry this as it's considered specialty I guess. Did some digging around to find out that the 3rd gen Supra's 7MGTE motors have this same design with a 51.5 mm diameter measuring at base of the seal groove. Miata t-stat I have on hand measures 52.4 right now so I'm going head to the Toyota dealer and test fit it. Will report back later on this. Seal looks like this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362457627 |
Oh and things are slightly delayed because there's a shit ton of planning that happened recently for a Euro trip with the gf.
Planning on hitting up Paris for about a week, off to Munich for a couple of days, then down to Bologna/Modena/Ravenna and ending in Venice for the next week. The only thing you guys will probably care about is I've managed to so far plan in the following: - BMW Welt and Museum tour (going here for a full day) - Pagani factory tour - Attempt to hit up Lambo and Ferrari museums - Visit this random farm El Hombre to take a look at his cheese making but really ultimately to wander around in his collection of old school Maseratis, bikes, tractors, etc (more info on this place here: Panini Classic Car Collection - Museum - euro-t-guide - Italy - What to see - 1) Btw, can you edit your posts after awhile? I don't see the edit button in my older posts anymore... |
No editing after a certain amount of time.
Also... props for your work. Way to be thorough and patient. |
Well I wasn't planning on fapping tonight...
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ITT: car porn. Seriously awesome build and great pictures to spice things up. Subbed.
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Originally Posted by rkim
(Post 1011119)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1368416296 ^"M2-1002 Uncompromising standards and craftsmanship are our development theme" "Uncompromising standards and craftsman- ship are our development theme" |
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:P What I meant was:
M2 1002 - 043 Uncompromising standards and craftsman- ship are our development theme Ok so a quick paint pic update, followed by my Mocal order as reference for anyone wanting plumbing details. Went with cummins beige for the block (can cap colour wasn't reliable but thankfully it didn't turn out too pale), cast iron for pumps, and still have to finish off head in cast iron too and send out VC (after bung welding / coil mounting fab) for hydrographics: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1368586065 So for the lower water neck, what I'm going to move ahead with is as follows: - Use stock HC return pipe but grind off o-ring seat beads, lathe up right sized register on backside of -10AN bung and weld it on for a push on hose connector - Completely grind off lower water neck port for stock pipe mating section and block it off with some flat bar - Grind off stock oil cooler water port, fab up 1" tube to mate to neck bend by flange and machine tube ID to mate with -10AN weld on bung register. Install another push on hose connector and run a slight 'S' in the hose to mate up to stock HC return pipe EWG cooling: -> -4 feed from block -> -4 return back into side of water neck (convenient flat available to tap) In the end, water neck will look something like this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1368586065 |
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Mocal order came in today. Awesome quality. Looking forward to the bling.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1368587445 And for those interested in a similar setup, I've attached my order summary, which outlines every piece in sequence for each line, as well as an order sum total at the bottom of the txt. Now time to start filing some rings and start short block assy! Will try to finish up machining by early next week and report back soon. |
Built motor. Baller manifold. Shitty turbo? Come on, man.
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You can run a shitty churbo on the track.
You can't run a shitty motor or manifold on the track. |
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^What Steve said. Hope to upgrade turbo down the road when/if I feel like it. For now, churbo shall do. Seen enough evidence here to convince me it'll be reliable enough in the short term.
Quick update: Ran into some hurdles over the weekend. Went into paranoid mode again and decided to wait and find/rent a bolt stretch gauge for the rods. Hope to assemble short block by this weekend (time running out). Worst case I'll rig up some end pieces and mic it. Oh and I'm waiting to get some more ARP lube. On the plus side... - Rings have been gapped. Went 0.020 top, 0.025 bottom (wanted 24 but 2 were already at 25) - Oil pan bung machined (milled in a 30 deg angle) - Oil pan temp sensor bung plate machined - Coolant spacer machined (just need to get tstat, oring, and barbs...more on this later) - Block was on hold so decided to do some footwork and get coils in and attach lip. Fuuuu the RR driver side shock bolt appears to have stripped and stuck in the arm now (basically happened as I cracked it loose). It was pretty rusty to begin with. Sucks since it was the last corner to be done. Also, WTFBBQ someone clearly rounded the driver side top hat nuts for the shock. Luckily bolt extractor came through. So yeah, waiting on another RR LH LCA... For now, this is how she sits. May need to lower a bit more and for sure pull fenders a bit. Buddy can hook me up with a roller so will plan for that near end of June-ish: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1369193799 |
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So this is becoming the slowest build everrrr...
But fear not, I have been working as much as I can, which means unfortunately I had to sacrifice updates. I have to go back to Japan for a bit but this time it's short and I get a week off afterwards so time to kick things into high gear! Here's my next steps when I get back mid July: - Tidy up long block, set timing - Fab up LS coil assy bracket and order wiring - Order seals/gasket for tranny - Drive to Buffalo and pick up exhaust from Abe - Hoist is acquired, fab up ghetto leveler or buy one at HF down in buffalo - Pull motor, weld up steering for PS delete - Throw in motor, mock up intercooler piping, swap everything else in Here's an update of where I'm at right now basically. Almost there. I'll post a more detailed update when I get back in a couple of weeks: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 Recently just got back from my Euro trip vacation. Will post some more later when I get more time: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372909603 |
Great build going man. I wish I took as good pictures when building mine. Loving the museum pics! Props, keep them coming!
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Nice build and pics!
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Ok back again and this time I'm hoping someone can help confirm a few things for me. I referenced a lot of other threads and I believe everything looks to be ok but it'd be great to get some confirmation (because I'm a noob and paranoid like that).
1) Spark plug gap - All measured @ 0.035". For LS coils and ~1 bar, I'm thinking this should be no problem? 2) Engine mount nut - I'm used to keeping everything slack when dropping in the motor - For the mount nut that hides behind the mount brackets that bolt to the engine, do you guys typically torque that down and have no issues with the body side studs dropping into place? - Would you recommend leaving the bolts that hold bracket to block slightly loose and torque them down once I drop the motor in and get the other mount nut on from body side? 3) Timing (here we go again) - Would like to know if anyone sees anything weird? - Initial setting below: - After rotating crank at least 2 times:https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373846824 - Crank at TDC (also confirmed through spark plug #1 hole) -> check https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373846824 - 19 teeth -> check - Cam gear marks centered (circled areas) -> check (exhaust side may look off but it's just perspective) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373846824 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373846824 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373846824 |
this thread got 200% more awesome since I last opened it.
couple notes: -did I miss the part about why you're using a churbo when the rest of the setup is ultra baller? -those trip pics are awesome -that M2 miata is awesome -shoulda tried the GST bro. you ALWAYS try that kinda stuff |
Churbo is capable of 300+whp. Get over it everybody.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1031766)
Churbo is capable of 350+whp. Get over it everybody.
I put down 3xx with one and just tuned Ryans car to 358 with one, doesn't mean it makes any sense whatsoever to run one with about 10k worth of baller parts making up the rest of the system if the rest of the setup is cheap-o then I "get it", but OP's setup looks expensive |
Build is expensive no doubt but I did have some target for budget (which is now obviously over haha) so the plan was to cheap out on the turbo for now, play with ~240ish whp, and start saving up for something more legit down the road. I also didn't bother investing in piping/intercooler since the CXR stuff should be good enough too.
If this was maybe 3-5 years ago, I wouldn't bother considering going the churbo route but I've read enough about other people having some decent reliability out of these that I feel the built motor will be protected as long as I keep a close eye on the cold side of things. |
^^Actually, I forgot to add. Originally I was looking for a legit 2560 but found out from Sav that the T3 .48 housings no longer exist.
So yes, I did plan on investing but couldn't find what I wanted so I went with plan B. I was restricted to T3 because of the mani I picked up and I wanted something similar to the 2560 so I got something similar to what Brain is running. |
I see.
makes sense oh and the T3 footprint is a blessing, not a curse. ;) |
Well I think you can get journal bearing T28s from the RB25 I think that are a T3 flange?
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^^I'll keep that in mind but for now I'll just run this.
Picked up exhaust this past week. Amazing work by Abe as usual. No surprises here. Had to grind off a bit of the engine stand to get the DP to bolt on so not fully on in this pic: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 Ok...so I really need some help. Been googling and searching here and not sure if this is buried in someone's build thread but here's my 2 top issues: 1) Cam gear timing setup Knowns: 2) Turbo oil drain packaging- Int/exh lobes are both set pointing outwards with the little nubs on the cam ends on the top side - Piston is at TDC and confirmed also with a rod stuck through spark plug. Notch in crank belt pulley lines up with oil pump housing arrow. - I and E marks are both up on their respective sides with the opposite E/I marks pointing 4/8 o'clock positions - I can get 19 teeth between cam gears ^^So I'm confident the motor itself is setup ok Unknowns: - Can't figure out which marking type on the cam gear outer ring to use as my reference for TDC (there's a few notches all around and 1 dimple mark) - Initially I set gears up however prev owner had them, making sure I and E were up. With this orientation, one of the notches were pretty much at the top for int/exh gears but int gear had dimple a few mm's offset and exh gear dimple was way out of phase ~120* (see 2nd page post #33) - Tonight I clocked the exh gear ~120 and re-aligned cam gears using the dimples as my reference and positioned dimples upright (see below) - I also confirmed the top slot (out of the 3) where the main bolt goes was in line with the dimple and both are pointing 'up'. - In this orientation, the vernier scale is quite off on both cam gears. - Again, motor wise it's all checked out but just reading the cam gears don't make any sense. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 I'm going to try to contact Toda to see if I can get any instructions from them since the newer versions now look different. Just wanted to see if someone has any experience with these and can give me some direction. - Long story short, I currently don't have enough room for best straight down routing of the drain - Tried straight and 90* fittings and still no good if I try to point fittings towards each other https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 - With the least amount of rework possible, anybody have some good suggestions on a fix? - Max amount I should clock CHRA housing? I recall reading somewhere it's ~+/- 30*? - For now, best I can come up with is maybe I can clock a 90* from the turbo pointing forward and then let the braided line 'S' its way back to the straight oil pan fitting like below: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374551095 ^Maybe there's just enough room to fit in without hitting frame rail? |
you dont want more than 10° angle on that CHRA. try again.
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Lose AN fittings.
Profit. |
Yip ditch the -an. Not gonna work easily. Turbo drain needs to be as vertical as possible, imo. Just go for a silicone drain line.
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Sorry guys, left you all hanging. Got a lot of catching up to do here but rest assured I have been working on and off on this.
Will plan to update in more detail over the winter but for now here's the basic summary of last 3 months (sorry, shitty fb/cell pics): Had to move places. So called in a favour and strapped the motor to a friend's truck and off to the new place: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Had a clean slate to work with for the garage so decided to quickly build up a work bench before I got to swapping: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Finally got around to getting the 1.6 out: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 With the motor out, took advantage and disassembled rack to weld up the pinion since I'm depowering (first job to break in the vice. Man that vice has been so key): https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Dropped it all in just before some more work travel started: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Towed it to a shop to get intercooler tubing all welded up. It was at this point I realized my brake hard line to flex line area on the FR RH burst while I was prying a bit on the fuel lines... BMC reservoir was all dry fml. Nonetheless, was happy with the tubing: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Brake leak was right at the last 90* before mating to the flex line so decided to just bend the whole thing new. Never tried this before so it was interesting: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Fitted up Abe's exhaust. Some tight clearances so we'll see later on if there's any rattles. Took off RR bumper and did the cutout while I was at it: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 So yeah I decided to remove heater core since the hoses were coming way too close to 4th exh collector and the dump tube. Was supposed to be a winter project to work on the interior but after feeding in some wiring and MAP line, next thing I know, the whole IP skin's apart lol: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382935837 Just pulled the carpet out today, finished all mechanical stuff for now. I'll try to get some more recent pics. Just have to figure out injection and ignition wiring and I should be ready to start soon. Hope I can do it this upcoming weekend. I have a LS2 coil to 1.6 wire harness wiring question though so I'll post that next. |
nice.
subbed. Thanks for the 1.6! |
Great progress! Motor looks awesome, header looks killer. Good stuff.
And damned if the NA's aren't really good looking cars too. :o |
Sick updates man, glad to see progress being made. That setup is drool worthy.
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Thanks guys and Matt, GL with the 1.6 build!
Ok so I emailed Rev but no response yet so I'll just ask you guys for help. Need some confirmation for wiring my LS2 coils to 1.6 wire harness. I was thinking of temporarily using wasted spark but came across some more info on seq. Referring to FM's LS coil guide install as well as this pic below, I drew up something quick to show what I'm planning to do and 2 questions where I'm stuck: LS2 ref pic everyone knows: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383022000 My diagram (FM's step #'s correspond to bubble label #'s) - *Edit, coils are supposed to be labelled 1 - 4 top to bottom instead of all 1's https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383022000 ^Question 1: - First, is it correct that Mazda white is CYL 1 and red is CYL 3? - Second, maybe only Rev can answer but MS2e brown is output C and green output D (question is what is C & D? CYL 2 & 4?) ^Question 2: - Are you guys just joining all the signal GNDs to the same GND as the MS2? On my 1.6 it was on the back of cyl head but now with the 1.8 there, I may extend up front to under TB. Any MS2e + 1.8 swap into 1.6 guys want to chime in here? Anyway, I'll fire off the same again to Rev and see what he says but hoping to resolve this within the next few days so I can start this up this weekend! |
Oh and stupid question but for the FIC injectors, I have the pigtails for direct PNP with the 1.6 wire harness...now for just batch fuel (for now), is it simply PNP or is there any extra wiring required for the MS2e?
I'll go full sequential over the winter but will just run batch for start up. |
Sick build.
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I know I'm a couple months late, but have you considered a banjo fitting for the drain? It would point more or less straight at the pan, with a little S bend of a hard line you could feed it right into a straight AN fitting. I'm not sure if a banjo fitting is allowed for a drain though. Don't wanna create a bottleneck.
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Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1067847)
Don't wanna create a bottleneck.
Mine may not be pretty, but it sure as hell drains as fast as humanly possible. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383063159 I even made sure to grind it flush with the inside of the pan so there was no interference with the windage tray. Edit: also, NO leaks on this one. |
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1067847)
I know I'm a couple months late, but have you considered a banjo fitting for the drain? It would point more or less straight at the pan, with a little S bend of a hard line you could feed it right into a straight AN fitting. I'm not sure if a banjo fitting is allowed for a drain though. Don't wanna create a bottleneck.
Also, because of the hex portion of the AN fitting and the compound angle I machined into the CHRA outlet flange (it points forward and inboard), I have very limited comp housing clock angle without one of the bosses for the housing bolts hitting the AN hex. So I'll likely machine out another straight flange for CHRA outlet and go the hose barb route. Only thing holding me back right now really is just wiring up the LS2's. Once that's done I just need to tidy a few things, fill up the oils and start cranking.. |
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So yeah tried starting today. Unfortunately a no go. Seems like I'm not getting spark on 2 & 4. Engine almost intermittently wants to start but can't. Here's what I checked:
- I get fuel in all cylinders - I took out all spark plugs 1 by 1 and ground them to engine to confirm spark. I'm getting spark on 1 & 3, but not 2 & 4 - I re-confirmed wiring (signals below, rest refer to diagram, signal grounds are with ECU on head): Cyl 1: LS2 red to Miata brown/yellow Cyl 2: LS2 purple to MS2 brown Cyl 3: LS2 blue to Miata brown Cyl 4: LS2 green to MS2 green https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383441959 I'm now wondering if settings are off for the MS2. I'm super noob at this right now so this is what was on the ini file Rev sent so I'm wondering if I should at least go with "coil on plug" for "number of coils"? https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383441959 Unfortunately need to head out for the night so no homework time right now. Will continue to search around tomorrow for a solution but I'm just posting in case there's anyone that'd be able to help. |
Number of coils needs to be set to "Coil on plug" for sequential, not "wasted spark".
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- Tried coil on plug, didn't work.
- Tried coil on plug and set dwell to 5.0 and didn't work. Will continue on this afternoon to see what else I can try... |
Remember that you need to reset the power after changing to coil on plug for the setting to take effect.
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Thanks Rev. Yeah everytime I burn I turn IG off, make sure it's offline, then IG ON back again.
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Yeah so still no good. Engine sputters as if it seems like 1/3 are trying to turn it over but that's about it.
RPMs on tach do not move at all. If I modulate throttle a bit somewhere around 50% seems like it sputters a bit more but I'm not sure why this would be the case. Tried changing crank spark angle to 8*, then 12* (it was originally 6*) and nothing. Crank dwell is 6 ms, max dwell set to 5. I also thought maybe my CAS is way off. Since it was completely disassembled, I originally installed it back on centered in the slot. Played around with leaned/advanced and although some changes in start up condition, still no start. Put it back to centered in the slot for now until I can actually get to setting base timing. Re-verified wiring. Everything's according to instructions. Signal grounds (LS2 brown) are tied with ECU + WB grounds at back of head. |
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