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Old 10-09-2014, 12:17 AM   #1
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Default Critique my turbo build!

Hello everyone!

This is my first turbo build, so be nice, I know I still have a lot to learn. I've done a bunch of reading on this site and several others, and I've read Maximum Boost. I have a '92 Miata dubbed The Other Woman. She is sporting the 1.6L engine, five speed transmission, no A/C or power steering, and a hideous paint job. My power goal is 200 - 230 whp and I'm building it to be a street legal autocross car. It's not my daily, but if something happens to my other vehicle, I would like to have this one to fall back on. I have no intention of swapping to the 1.8 any time soon, it may be a future project, but I can reach my goals with the 1.6. So, without further adieu, this is what I plan on piecing together over the next few months.

MegaSquirtPNP

Garrett GT2554r

??? Turbo Manifold

Forge Twin Piston BOV

GFB Turbo Fuse

??? Intercooler with 2" Silicon Hosing

Mishimoto Radiator and Twin Fan Shroud

2.5" downpipe and midpipe into 2.5" Flyin Miata Turbo Single Exhaust

As you can see, I still need to figure out which intercooler and turbo manifold to purchase. Any suggestions would be much appreciated! I'm trying to be budget-conscious but I would rather spend a little more on a dependable part rather than cheaping out of something that will break. And do you think GFB Turbo Fuse would be a good investment?

Thanks in advance for the help!

~Brandon L.

Last edited by BrandonL; 10-09-2014 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:35 AM   #2
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I think you need to some more homework before touching the car for turbos. I recommend reading up in the saved posts sub
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:04 AM   #3
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Do you already have a downpipe? If you are going to go with FM parts, why not just buy a manifold and downpipe from them? Better yet, just buy the whole kit including the 2554 minus electronics and be done with it.
They make good stuff, and their support seems to be much better than certain other manufacturers...
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Do you already have a downpipe? If you are going to go with FM parts, why not just buy a manifold and downpipe from them? Better yet, just buy the whole kit including the 2554 minus electronics and be done with it.
They make good stuff, and their support seems to be much better than certain other manufacturers...
Sometimes I wish that's exactly what I did... Would have saved so much time and $$
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:20 AM   #5
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Those mishimoto fans won't do the job once you go turbo. Consider a spal fan solution or just go back to stock fans. I have a GFB turbo fuse and it works as intended. But it's only good for 10psi or more. When you run 12-14psi it's kinda hard to set it right.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:24 AM   #6
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Which of the parts you listed do you already have?

This thread is headed for eggplant
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Which of the parts you listed do you already have?

This thread is headed for eggplant
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen2_the_penguin View Post
I think you need to some more homework before touching the car for turbos. I recommend reading up in the saved posts sub
Thanks for that, doesn't really answer any of the questions I've asked, but I'll keep that in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Do you already have a downpipe? If you are going to go with FM parts, why not just buy a manifold and downpipe from them? Better yet, just buy the whole kit including the 2554 minus electronics and be done with it.
They make good stuff, and their support seems to be much better than certain other manufacturers...
I found the FM turbo manifold comes with the downpipe, I was considering buying their manifold. I've already emailed them about getting their kit without the electronics, but if I can put the same kit together piece by piece and have the same end result and save a few hundred dollars, that's the route I'm trying to take. I know some of those kits are more expensive because of the convenience of buying it all at once. Thanks for your reply, though! If building the kit ends up costing as much as their already assembled kit, I'll probably just end up getting their kit. I'm just weighing my options right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
Those mishimoto fans won't do the job once you go turbo. Consider a spal fan solution or just go back to stock fans. I have a GFB turbo fuse and it works as intended. But it's only good for 10psi or more. When you run 12-14psi it's kinda hard to set it right.
Thanks for the reply! I haven't heard about the Mishimoto fans not being strong enough, but I will definitely check out Spal. Would the stock fan have better air flow than an aftermarket option? I was hoping to keep my boost between 8 and 10 pounds so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm realizing that 200 - 230 whp may have been a little over optimistic on this set up, I'm realizing that I'll realistically get about 180 whp, but that should be enough for my intended purpose. Thanks again for the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Which of the parts you listed do you already have?

This thread is headed for eggplant
I purchased the Miata today, but I've been planning this build for awhile now. I haven't jumped the gun and bought any parts yet, but I should have everything within the next four to six months, depending on if I buy the preassembled kit from FM or put it together myself. My plan to start off with is wheels and tires, since the ones on the car are over six years old, then get the MSPNP and learn how to play with the tune before going turbo. Then get as much seat time as possible on the autocross track. I'm not sure what eggplant means, I've seen it mentioned a few times on this forum but it was never really explained, lol. I'm guessing it's an inside joke. Thanks again for the reply! I've read a lot of your posts, you seem to be very knowledgeable. I hope to learn more from you.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:16 AM   #9
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If you've been planning this build for a while, why haven't you read the stickies that tell you exactly what to buy and how to do this successfully?

Not trying to beat you up, but your first post and the questions within reek of someone who has been about 30 seconds "researching," and that "research" was "I think i want to turbo my Miata, let's see what Miata.net says after i vomit a thread up."


The OEM fans are better than the Mishimoto fans. SPAL fans are better than OEM.

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Old 10-10-2014, 12:08 AM   #10
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Since you are budget oriented, I would avoid that turbo to start with IMO.



Does FM split up their turbo kits? If I were you, I'd probably consider contacting them about the no electronics package, and no turbo. You might want to explore using an sr20 t25 or t28, that you can get for much cheaper. They will be used but it will help you get everything else up and running.

Just to let you know, Rami uses an older Greddy kit with BIPES, and Jacob has a N/A 1.8.

They are both usually neck and neck at our autox. I am unsure about their suspension set-ups, but definitely not stock. I think they both have 6-UL's with RS3s. So you may want to consider sorting out suspension/wheels/tires tires first.



I have no idea how much FM considers the GT2560r's value, but let's just guess $800.

That puts the FMII kit without electronics or turbo at $2200

I would contact Brain about a MS3 PNP instead, would basically cost the same as MS PNP V2 $800

Rx8 injectors $100~$200

Wideband $150

Boost gauge $100

Radiator + fans. IMO, the mishimoto fans will be fine. If they aren't, a reroute is probably the same cost as SPAL fans. I'd probably just go aluminum ebay radiator + fan at $130.

Just make an exhaust from the downpipe back. Or I could make you one if you wanted ~$100-200 materials

And the current clutch it has in it is a stage 1 Exedy. So unless you feel like burning that out quickly, I would try and keep the power smaller starting off.

That should virtually be everything you need which brings the grand total of turbo just under $3800. The notorious odds and ends, add another $200, so $4000 total to turbo.


Me personally, I felt I could do it cheaper. I used the T25 turbo and didn't get a kit. I am at $1790.62 for turbo related costs. Granted I am not 100% running yet and I don't have the reviews and proven tests of hundreds of satisfied customers, but I think I will turn out OK.

Just some things to maybe look into.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:43 AM   #11
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I'm in a similar position and am in the process of piecing together parts over time. It probably would have been easier to get the FM non-electronics kit, but not necessarily cheaper.

For ECU, MS3 Basic from Reverant or MS3x from Braineack.

As mentioned directly above, you're missing VTPS, injectors, wideband, gauges, oil/water lines and clutch/flywheel to name a few. Those add up quickly. You'll also want to upgrade the 1.6 rear end to a 1.8 LSD.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:49 AM   #12
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FM quoted me just over $1300 for a 2560 just fyi
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Old 10-10-2014, 05:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
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FM quoted me just over $1300 for a 2560 just fyi
If that's the case then ~$1650 for the FM kit without electronics or turbo doesn't sound all that bad...
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
Since you are budget oriented, I would avoid that turbo to start with IMO.



Does FM split up their turbo kits? If I were you, I'd probably consider contacting them about the no electronics package, and no turbo. You might want to explore using an sr20 t25 or t28, that you can get for much cheaper. They will be used but it will help you get everything else up and running.

Just to let you know, Rami uses an older Greddy kit with BIPES, and Jacob has a N/A 1.8.

They are both usually neck and neck at our autox. I am unsure about their suspension set-ups, but definitely not stock. I think they both have 6-UL's with RS3s. So you may want to consider sorting out suspension/wheels/tires tires first.



I have no idea how much FM considers the GT2560r's value, but let's just guess $800.

That puts the FMII kit without electronics or turbo at $2200

I would contact Brain about a MS3 PNP instead, would basically cost the same as MS PNP V2 $800

Rx8 injectors $100~$200

Wideband $150

Boost gauge $100

Radiator + fans. IMO, the mishimoto fans will be fine. If they aren't, a reroute is probably the same cost as SPAL fans. I'd probably just go aluminum ebay radiator + fan at $130.

Just make an exhaust from the downpipe back. Or I could make you one if you wanted ~$100-200 materials

And the current clutch it has in it is a stage 1 Exedy. So unless you feel like burning that out quickly, I would try and keep the power smaller starting off.

That should virtually be everything you need which brings the grand total of turbo just under $3800. The notorious odds and ends, add another $200, so $4000 total to turbo.


Me personally, I felt I could do it cheaper. I used the T25 turbo and didn't get a kit. I am at $1790.62 for turbo related costs. Granted I am not 100% running yet and I don't have the reviews and proven tests of hundreds of satisfied customers, but I think I will turn out OK.

Just some things to maybe look into.
Hey bud! Thanks for the reply!

I've been friends with Rami for quite some time now, but I don't believe I have met Jacob before. I'll be sure to talk to them about their builds next time I see them. I'm already pretty set on the GT2554r, after looking at other builds and reading the stats, that's the route I've decided to take. I know it's not the cheapest turbo, but I'm gonna give it a try. I already have my wheels and tires picked out, and I plan on having those within the next month. Next I'm going to purchase the MS PNP so I can become competent with tuning before adding forced induction. Then suspension, then turbo kit. I have everything planned out, I'm just trying to solidify my turbo plans. I've been in contact with Brandon from FM about the turbo kit without electronics. I think it's going to be the most cost effective route and will help keep as much guess work out of the equation. He's building me an estimate right now for everything I need except for the turbo, ECU, boost controller and injectors. I should be able to source those parts for a more reasonable price. Wow, I hope to see your build soon! Let me know how it goes, feel free to text me any time.

-Brandon L.
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpugliese View Post
I'm in a similar position and am in the process of piecing together parts over time. It probably would have been easier to get the FM non-electronics kit, but not necessarily cheaper.

For ECU, MS3 Basic from Reverant or MS3x from Braineack.

As mentioned directly above, you're missing VTPS, injectors, wideband, gauges, oil/water lines and clutch/flywheel to name a few. Those add up quickly. You'll also want to upgrade the 1.6 rear end to a 1.8 LSD.
Hey, thanks for the reply!

I know there are other things that I will need outside of the turbo kit, like the rear end and clutch/flywheel, and I already have those things figured out. I'm just trying to get everything I need under the hood solidified. What kind of ECU are you going with and why?

Brandon L.
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Old 10-13-2014, 01:49 AM   #16
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1600 for a fm kit? Maybe i'm missing something but their price tag is 3k on the no electronics kit.
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Old 10-13-2014, 01:56 AM   #17
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Ya dude, that's missing the turbo!
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:06 PM   #18
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Why not go with a begi kit with no turbo for half the cost? Sure they take a while to get mine all the iron ore and make you the kit but if money is an issue Begi is cheaper.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:43 PM   #19
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Just fyi, I ordered a begi shanghai s kit over a month ago and I'm still waiting on it. No offense to them as the kit is pretty much hand made and I had to call and change the order a little. They seem to have great reviews. Just under $1600 shipped. Buy a megasquirt then order the begi kit and figure out the ms while you wait
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Why not go with a begi kit with no turbo for half the cost? Sure they take a while to get mine all the iron ore and make you the kit but if money is an issue Begi is cheaper.
because begi blows dongs these days and you'll be lucky to get anything at all in the next year or two, and when you finally do half the crap will be missing or wrong
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