18psi

iTrader: (76)

It's gonna be really hard, as Andrew said, but hey if you can somehow sneak it by then kudos to ya.

I normally tell people exactly the same as post above, but have seen at least a handful of completely "illega" swaps that somehow magically managed to get approved, probably came to the right place on the right day at the right time, when no one seemed to care lol

Djwade

You're right about the full emissions package on the engine, and the biggest concern is the downpipe, which is why I'm going to be speaking to a referee at the station both before and after the modifications to make sure I do it as best as possible. This swap has been BAR'd before, but you're also right in the fact that it is subject to the referee performing the inspection. The interesting thing that you bring up is the gas tank. When I spoke with a referee prior to starting the build, he had mentioned that exchanging the gas tank out was only required for Diesel to Gasoline swaps. The big reason for that is the certification of a chassis as either a gasoline or a diesel chassis from the manufacturer with the EPA. That was just one data point, however, and in a casual conversation. I work two blocks away from my local ref. station, so I'll see if I can schedule an appointment for this week to get all the specifics clearly defined.

The main reason why I have high confidence is that V8 Roadsters is already pursuing an EO, but I'm just impatient and wanted to jump into this sooner rather than later. If that continues through to completion, I could always work with V8 Roadsters in the future to adjust my setup to match their EO, and pay for any additional pieces that the ARB required them to add (as well as the fee coverage that is typically rolled into a kit). I'm also not assuming it's going to be easy. Far from it. I'm already operating under the assumption that I'll need to be actively involved withe the ref station to make sure they're satisfied, but for me personally, the result will be worth it. And if I am successful, hopefully I'll have sufficiently documented the process to help others with their own attempt.

And if none of the above pans out? LFX Exocet with SB100

mreakus

Or move to a different state...

3rdCarMX5

iTrader: (1)

It it sounds like you have the right attitude and attention to detail to get as close as possible to compliant. I would offer to help wrench but I am in the same boat as you with life cutting into wrenching time.

V8roadsters have been pursuing CARB EO since 2014, are they any closer? It seems like every year they wait, they risk losing potential sales as they begin to compete against newer products and cars. I was really hopeful when they announced this swap.

Good luck with getting it through! Sometimes you get lucky with the dmv, and sometimes you just have to keep making another appointment.

Djwade

I called them earlier today to talk about the progress of the EO, and the reason for the delay is the car which they're basing the EO off of has an active duty military owner, who unfortunately has been unavailable for the past while. I imagine when he's back, their progress will resume, but until then things are on hold. They also mentioned that due to success others have had in getting it BAR'd, they don't feel as much pressure in getting it completed yet.

I also called the referee scheduling service to see if I can just meet with a ref ahead of time in order to go over what I'm planning and get their input before even bringing the car in, and it turns out that they have this service already. Instead of needing to schedule an appointment, they just asked for the details of the swap (Year, Make, Model, No. of Cylinders, and displacement, and the same for the engine being swapped in). They'll send the information to a referee at your local referee station, and they'll research the details of the swap, what needs to be retained, and what's already been done by others,and pass along the information back to you. I should be hearing back by Thursday, and I'll be documenting exactly what they say is needed to hopefully make this process easier for others in the future. I'm hoping I end up with a nice checklist of things that need to be done before I bring it to get BAR'd.

OneTwo

iTrader: (2)

Subbed for CA smog police info. Good luck on this endeavor OP!

Djwade

Whelp, I've got good news, bad news, and interesting news.

The (kinda) good news:

I spoke to the smog ref, and after talking some, the big deal with the gas tank and emissions is the ECU reading everything happily. Is you can get the OEM EVAP system rigged up, and communicating with the ECU without modifying the ECU, that part of the swap should be fine. Basically as long as the ECU is seeing everything it's expecting to see (legitimately, not fudging the signal), you're golden.

The bad news:

The ref said they've gotten much much much more strict about the ECU that's driving the swap. The ECU MUST be from the original vehicle, unmodified, and verified by a dealership. He said that every single one of the past 12 cars that went through the ref station for an engine swap failed on this exact point. The easiest way to get past this step is to have the original ECU, with the VIN matching and totally unchanged at all. I don't have that, and have no way of getting it, so I'm basically screwed in that regard. I spoke to my local Chevrolet dealer about getting a replacement ECU verified to just an engine and not the entire car, and got a "likely not possible" response. Which about settles it for me in my case.

So the takeaway is this: Engine swaps are still technically possible in a Miata, but for the love of kittens, get the original ECU from the vehicle you're grabbing the engine out of, and make sure your build can keep the ECU happy without disabling any features.

I'm sure you can still technically do less than the letter of the law and pass if you swing by on a good day, but I'm not particularly inclined on taking that risk just yet.

And now for the interesting news:

Because I still want to build out a v6 Miata, or at least something based on one, I started looking for any unfinished/incomplete/unused catfish or Exocet kits. Sure enough, I found one for sale, and got a screaming deal on it.

Soooooo yeah. LFX Exocet is actually happening. It wasn't the original plan, but it was always my end goal to have either an Exocet or a Catfish, so I guess I'm just getting there sooner rather than later.

As far as the build goes, the idiots at the shipping company still haven't delivered my engine/transmission, but hopefully now that will get take care of as my girlfriend will be at the house during the week, so I'm not limited to taking days off work to accept it now. The Exocet kit should be here in a month or so. In the meantime, I'll be compiling receipts of the kits and starting the paperwork the DMV wants so I can grab an SB100 number now. According to a call to the DMV on Friday, there's about 390 SB100 numbers left, so there's no real rush, but I'd like to get mine sooner rather than later just to get it out of the way.

In the meantime I get to start stripping the donor down more and parting out. Updates to come when more stuff starts happening, which is hopefully soon.

farpolemiddle

What a stupid *** state.

Djwade

Yup. What is even more ridiculous is that now that I'm going to have an SB100, the car will be registered as a 1960 body style vehicle, and as such I no longer need any catalytic converters at all (and I'm sure as hell not paying $400 a side for the OEM downpipes that I would need to modify anyways now). So the same car will be technically polluting more because of this whole process.

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

We love our state, but yes, certain entities are quite screwed. It is clearly a money thing.

Scaxx

Blows about the whole legality issue, and yeah, California is utterly ridiculous with emissions. I totally understand being strict but the percentage of the population that's doing engine swaps like this is pretty ******* small. Anyway, I'm pumped for an lfx exocet (lfxoecet?), gonna be following closely!

Djwade

Funnily enough LFXOCET is the top contender for my license plate at this point. "V6MIATA" is no longer quite as fitting.

gooflophaze

GM's Global A program. Won't let you bench flash an ECU without all the other modules communicating, in theory to help prevent theft by breaking in and replacing the stock ECM. Changing a VIN basically requires all those other modules "agreeing" that the programmed VIN is the same throughout the car.

Does the ECM have to tie in with the engine? In theory, you might could grab all the modules from a single wreck.

Djwade

The way I understand it, the ECU has to be from the exact car the engine came out of (essentially Vin matched) or the dealer has to flash it and verify it as such. While I'm sure you could get all the modules, my local dealer wasn't willing to do anything without everything being in a running Camaro with a chassis vin to match everything to.

Djwade

Finally some progress for this week. Engine got delivered a couple of days ago, but commuting and work keeps me busy for most week days, so I wasn't able to really look it over or wrench on it until today. The first thing of note was the engine was filthy. Definitely needed to have a good going over before it gets pulled apart to swap out the oil pan. It arrived with the downpipes, which, had I been moving forward with the BAR engine swap, would have been extremely beneficial, as new OEM Cats are ~$350/side. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), I no longer need them, so their presence is not as exciting as it could have been. The harness was also attached, but cut in significant enough places to make it unsalvageable.



I immediately jumped in to stripping the wiring harness off entirely. I've ordered a modified replacement harness from V8 Roadsters, so that should get here once everything else for the swap does as well. In the meantime I just took a bunch of pictures before it all came off. Once the wiring was all off, I stripped off the downpipes, engine mounts, alternator, PS Pump, and AC compressor. The pulley on the PS pump seems to have been whacked a little bit from the side impact the car had, so it will need to be replaced, but everything else (with special attention paid to the block) all look to be damage free. Seeing a QR code on the engine block was not something I'm accustomed to seeing, but was an interesting little thing to find.



Once I had all the accessories off, I pulled off the transmission so I could wheel the block out to the driveway and give it a good cleaning. Now it's back in the garage and actually looking like a sub 1k mile motor. I overestimated the bolts I needed length wise for bolting it to the engine stand, so I had to make a second run to the hardware store to pick up some bolts. (M10x1.5 x 75mm is what you want if you're using a harbor freight/torin engine stand, or at least the "T" leg version). Tomorrow I'll get it onto the engine stand and pull off the oil pan to start prepping for the modded version, which should be arriving on Monday.



In other news, the chassis I'm having delivered is new enough to be the most modern version of the chassis, which means V8 Roadsters has a mounting kit for the LFX specially designed for the Exocet. I spoke some with Exomotive, who are also starting an LFX build in the next few weeks or so, and it looks like the stock bodywork won't clear the top of the engine, so I'll need to have a cutout or another similar modification until they sell a modified body panel, or I bust out the foam board and fiberglass and start making my own. If everything keeps progressing at a decent clip, I don't think its too unreasonable to hope to have this running and registered with time to spare before M@MRLS this year. Time will tell, I suppose!

Djwade

Managed to get a little time over the past few days to get the engine put on the stand.



Pulled off the old oil pan and was happy to see a nice clean engine, which wasn't unexpected given the mileage, but is still a great sight to see.





Tonight I got around to installing the new modified oil pan that arrived yesterday. Everything went smoothly as far as I can tell right now, but I'll do a leak test on it after the RTV has 24 hours to cure.





If it passes that, all that needs to be done to the engine is replace the crank pulley bolt with a new one (which I've just ordered) and replace the accessories that are going back on (Alternator and Power Steering).

A status update from V8 Roadsters puts my Subframe ~3 weeks out from completion, and talks with the transportation company have the chassis pick-up scheduled tentatively for the end of next week, which would mean I have all the major components I need in ~4 weeks. Still plenty of stuff to do in the meantime with stripping down the miata and clearing space for the chassis when it arrives.

Djwade

Finally, enough progress to provide an update.

The majority of the parts off the miata chassis have been sold, and I'm finally at the point where I can clear out the garage to make room for the flash flood of parts and components that are about to come in.

On the engine side of things, reading ThePass' thread on his swap made me slightly concerned about the oil pump being primed after the oil pan swap and sitting sans oil for a while, so I decided to check the engine manually before installing it. I knew I wasn't going to be able to hand crank it fast enough to get a significant oil pressure reading, but I just wanted to verify that it was primed enough to move oil. I ended up pulling the spark plugs so I could crank the engine over, and pulled out the oil pressure sensor right below the filter on the camaro version of the LFX. A few hand cranked cycles with oil in the engine and oil started to get pumped out. While it's not a sure-fire way to guarantee good oil pressure, it at least alleviates some of my concerns. When the engine is in the car and all wired up, I'll do another cranking test (this time with the starter) and an analog oil pressure gauge to verify before trying to start it up for the first time.



For the transmission, a pretty common issue with dropouts is damage to the mounts on the extension housing, so I finally got around to pulling the damaged one off and replacing it with a new one. The tricky thing here is the pin that connects to the shift linkage end. its not pressed on too tightly, but it can only come out if you press it up from the bottom, which may require bending something into the shape you want and levering it over a pivot. New extension housing is on now, but I'm waiting on a new rear seal.

The big news is that the chassis finally got picked up. I ended up using the same specialty shippers that Exomotive uses for all their powdercoated chassis now, just because I didn't want any damage in shipment, given that this wasn't purchased new. It shouldn't take too terribly long for it to get out to me. During that time, V8 Roadsters will be welding up the subframe, and that will probably be finished this week and sent out to me sometime next week. I'm optimistic that I'll have everything I need by the second week of June to really jump into putting everything together.

AlwaysBroken

Every time I read a story about CARB or CA gun laws, it gives me a sad. I loved the weather and the roads there and wish I could go back... but it's such a hard pill to swallow.

I wonder why the other 50 states don't band together and forbid CA from being stupid via federal legislation?

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

Because we basically fund most of the nation. But yeah we have some silly laws, but again it is all related to money. Once our state realized it could charge fees for all this stuff, that was that. Now those folks have jobs, which must be preserved at all cost.

Pretty much the same old theme from governmiliaracademia.

Djwade

While it is unfortunate that there are overly restrictive regulations that inhibit a lot of people from pursuing their ideal build, I'm ultimately glad that I live where I do. It's highly unlikely that I could find a job that I enjoy as much, nor one that pays as well as my current job in many other locations. I'm more than happy to trade a longer commute at 5 a.m. if it lets me afford both the garage and the Exocet project that lets me circumvent the silly restrictions on engine swaps.

Besides, I was always planning on building an Exocet, this just saved me some money by forcing me to do it earlier and finding the deal I jumped on. Its just unfortunate that for everyone else who isn't interested in a special construction vehicle, it's necessary go through the rigamarole of returning everything to stock every 2 years, which makes street-driven engine swaps nearly impossible.