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They were done by the previous owner right before trade-in.
Agreed on the 6ULs, I always liked the 5lug 17" variants. Glad to have a few sets to cycle around.
193.66whp/161.61wtq is as good as 194/162 and i'm super happy with that. 194 peak whp works out to 180.25 NASA AVG.
Reminder that this car has 146k miles and 'just' a fancy coated header and a second hand OpenFlashTablet flash tune. I had no reason to expect 200+ like the healthiest and custom mapped cars are able to manage.
NASA TT/ST rules treat my STI lip and Limited trim package spoiler as if they're 4" splitters and 74" Zebulon wings, so if I made any more power or wanted to pull all my interior out, i'd have to lose the lip and spoiler to 'pay' for the P:W space.
Build A:
180 avg
2749lbs, declare 183whp
-.1 weight factor
+.3 for undersized tires
-.7 A arm
-.5 for 'splitter'
spoiler is 'free' by giving up the BTM credit
If I remove the lip/spoiler, I can pull the seats and attempt to get down to 2650 or so.
In doing this, I would also give up the undersized tire credit. That would be offset by also losing the splitter and weight factor hits and gaining the BTM credit:
Build B:
180 avg whp
2650lbs, declare 184whp
+/- 0 for weight factor
-.7 A arms
+.3 BTM
In a vacuum, I'm very confident that Build A would be faster if I had a real wing(Voltex, Zebulon, APR GT250, Gstream, etc) and a class-max 4" splitter. Alas, I do not..
So, I'll throw it on the scales tomorrow or Wednesday and see where it lands with aluminum Xidas, lighter weight 6ULs and Hoosiers with the plan to aim for 2650lbs. That will be simply pulling all the seats out and slapping in my old Recaro SPG on a PCI bracket.
On Wednesday last week I spent the day installing the Xidas and resetting the alignment/setup.
I attempted to contain the variables by running the same setup as before, with just the springrate and damper change.
Balance was off, car was loose. It definitely turns better, too betterer.
My stock rear bar is long gone, so my only easy fix is to remove the rake and lower the rear end, or pull camber out of the front.
Local seasoned national tour STXer beat me by his smallest margin yet, and I'm still on a customer's 2yr old scrubs. We're getting there. I think with another event or two I can knock the rest of my rust off and win on scrubs before buying fresh tires for 2023.
I ended up 4th in raw time, 3rd in PAX, 2nd in STX. ~85 total drivers.
Can you share your alignment or is that top secret?
It's a few posts up, definitely not secret.
It was -4.5 front, -2.5 rear which was the max natural rear
zero toe all around.
The Xida swap ended up at -4.9 front with the max negative chips and the plates near the middle.
I have the whiteline offset bushings for the rear to install when I can reprioritize the time, as the rear could definitely use a bit more negative.
Originally Posted by e1_griego
I've always preferred a rear bar at autox, even if it's soft.
A lot of the STX guys (myself included) are running the Mann 13mm rear bar.
Joining us for nats? Didn't see you on the reg list.
You're spot on. My bar is the whiteline 16mm, and on full soft I am finding it too stiff now that I have more overall roll stiffness from the springrate change.
I've been asked to be a backup codriver, but wont be bringing my own car, we'll see.
This really is my daily driver, I'm just a degenerate who craves competition and broke my racecar too badly.
All four OEM seats removed and the Recaro SPG in on the PCI dual locking slider got it down to ~2560 at 1/4 tank.
That puts it near 2750 with my 200lb chiseled mass.
I'll need to run it pretty low on fuel to stay near that 2750, but these cars apparently fuel starve below 1/2 tank, so I'll have to be cognizant of that. I did not have any fuel starve at Nelson Ledges, but NL is a primarily right handed corner load, while Mid O T1 is a fast ~88mph left which is prime 86 fuel starve opportunity.
Regardless, its fat enough to keep the "small tires at 2750+" credit and that credit allows me to also eat the Splitter penalty and give up the BTM credit.
2750lbs
Declaring 183.33whp
-.1 for weight factor
+.3 for small tires at big weight
-.7 for A arms
-.5 for splitter
Obviously a real splitter and a real wing would be free speed on top of whatever I am able to run this weekend.
I set high goals to win TT5 and even challenge the Club Course record in my stupid daily-driver-with-Hoosiers. Short version, that didn't happen. Feel free to look at the pics and scroll right past the rest.
Club Course day one: 1.39.798 2nd place by .023 to a 39.775. Both of us would have also won TT4.
Pro Course day two: 1.38.134 2nd place to a 37.214. Both of us would have also won TT4.
Starting with event prep, pads and tires. Nothing else.
Off came the Stoptech Sports "309" pads I street/AX and did one HPDE at Nelson Ledges on: Left front inner had some chunking.
On went Hawk DTC60 square.
The new rig to replace the Land Cruiser: 2008 Coachman "Freedom Express" FX21QB
6.0L LS, 4L80E 3500 dually chassis.
Full of corn for min weight and fuel starve prevention.
Posted up early on Friday to work from the paddock for the afternoon:
Racecar status:
Day One: Club Course:
As I said in a previous post, the Pro Course record was set at 2019 Champs, so I knew it was way out of reach.
The Club record was set regionally by a customer, in a very similar FRS but with a wing. He never let me put all the camber in the car that I thought it wanted, so I hoped I could offset his wing/cage/development familiarity with a more aggressive setup and home track Sending It. The problem is that I used his now 2 year old scrub tires.
I ended up a second off the record and .02 off the win. Mid Atlantic fast guy Ricardo snuck it out on the last lap of the last session while following me. He drives a splitter/wing, cable throttle S2K on 255/40/17 RC1s2 on 17x10" wheels, with 20 mph WHP than me.
I turned ***** every session testing in pretty large 3 click increments on both sides of 'middle', was a pyro nerd the first two sessions to get the tires happy, looked over data with Tom O'Gorman. Did everything to try and get up to speed, but the car just never felt like I wanted it to.
I'm pretty sure I know what it needs but need to spend a day confirming stuff on the setup pad and maybe try again at an Autointerest HPDE next month.
Trying to be brief: The front axle is amazing. Front grip, turn-in, steering feel, etc are all amazing, sharp, exact, direct. The rear? The opposite, disconnected, dissimilar, numb. The car never tried to kill me, never did anything to catch me out, but was most definitely loose on entry, loose under braking, and loose at initial throttle input if it was anywhere near 90% lat grip.
I was able to save/catch/correct two BIG slides in T1 and stay on the pavement, but the difference between the axles was troubling. My 22/16mm whiteline bars are already full stiff front/full soft rear. My only tuning tool left was to just drop the rear ride height or remove camber from the front to make the front work worse. I had dropped the rear 4 turns after the AX as a prep and dropped it two more. It is nearly level now and that was as far as I took it.
Today I ordered a Mann Engineering rear bar which is step one.
Step two will be to install the Whiteline RUCA offset bushings I have at the shop for more rear camber.
I also know Emilio is going to read all this and say "well duh, you used ancient brick tires for new setup testing, of course it handled like crap"
Looking at the data, it was clear my rustiness was the major culprit. I had an AIM theoretical of a 38.252 on day one. two different places I could have saved quarter seconds.
It was not a small failure on my part. I ran only two laps sub 40, but 11 laps in the 40s and several more in the 41s. Two Bs and a bunch of Cs got a degree(podium) but it wasn't what I hoped for.
Anyways, all that to explain day two:
Slept on it and made it my Day 2 goal to be as smooth as possible with turn-in steering inputs and much much softer with brake release in order to clean up/prevent all the small wiggles and mistakes that clouded all of day one's laps.
Keynote: These DTC60s are terrible and I now vividly remember why I love my GLoc R16/12 setup so much.
A big chunk of my rust was knocked off and day two went much better.
Session two I threw a CEL after 4 really hard back to back flyers and decided to park it for the day. I had also burned through all of my e85 and another full session probably would have resulted in a min weight DQ for the day.
So for session 4 I hoped into a buddies ST6 car for a TT6 rip. Those four laps were good for the TT6 win and the fastest ST or TT6 miata lap of the entire weekend. I was home.
After my BRZ was loaded, another buddy parked his GR in my spot to rub it in.
So anyways, 86 make alot of sense but mine definitely needs more development. Hopefully it never gets said development because my K24 racecar should be on track somewhere before the end of the year... hopefully.
NASA Great Lakes
Mid Ohio Sportscar Course, Club Course layout w/chicane.
August 27, 2022
Second place lap by .023 seconds. :(
Second place again Sunday, but no video.
2013 BRZ Limited
193.66 peak, 161.8 ftlb
Prepped for SCCA STX:
JDL 421 EL header
JDL UltraQuiet catted front/overpipe combo
Tanabe Medallion catback
TRD intake
OpenFlash Tablet tune
500/500lb 949 Racing Xida coilovers
Whiteline 22/16mm swaybars
Stock RLCA to avoid NASA penalty
17x9 +40mm 949 Racing 6UL wheels
225/40/17 Hoosier R7
ST/TT build:
2750lb min weight, 2763 lowest actual weight.
183 NASA Average WHP claimed, 180.2 actual.
-.7 for A-arms
-.1 for weight factor
-.5 for "splitter"(STI front lip counts, since it is not BTM)
+.3 credit for small tires over 2749lbs
No BTM credit since Limited trim rear spoiler and STI front lip.
No BBK, no RLCA, no ELBJ.
Total mod factors: -1.0
Several 1:40 laps, only 2 sub 40. 1.38.252 was the "theoretical" from AIM.
Definitely lots of opportunities for cleanup and improvement, most of them annotated.
It is kind of funny, I'm in the same boat with my BRZ after the K swap. I always figured the issue would be front grip with these things, but the front feels pretty good and the rear is where I'm like what is going on back there.
Oh, and by front feels good I mean other than the EPS cutting out.
In a perfect mix of exact science, procrastination, bigger priorities and regular life, I have managed to make only one change at a time. So, even though I knew the parts combo was "wrong" I waited until yesterday to put the correct rear swaybar on the car...
https://www.mann-engineering.com/pro...stable-swaybar
Its basically a Supermiata rear bar but for the 86 chassis. OE level stiffness, adjustable to softer. It is the hot ticket for most autocrossers that don't do dual speedway style Karcepts bars front and rear.
I gambled on the middle setting, a step softer than OEM since the hot formula I am trying to emulate requires front roll center correction I am not allowed to have, so I erred on the side of caution. It was perfect.
Losses by .059 and .016 to the local STX fastguy have been overwhelmingly countered with last night's victory by .236
Pictured with my buddy's vette. He was FTD and I was #1 PAX.
Last part on the shelf is the Whiteline RUCA offset bushings...
Are you running an LSD, looked but couldn't see? If Torsen, you'll need to keep that inside rear on the ground ...
As a multiple 'real' Toyota owner, I wish these cars had Toyota quality and reliability!
Reversed TT5 is for viewing in the rearview mirror of cars in front of me on track. A huge consideration in STx classes, but still a nice to have in TT.
Yea, LSD, stock Torsen. I have not had a single inside wheel spin-up problem yet, even on Hoosiers with a bigger 16mm Whiteline rear bar. As much as i'd love to upgrade to a OSG, I feel like that is a really high hanging fruit on this car, especially in my usage/budget.
We never found a pressing need for the OSG in our 86 build either. Not like the NA/NB where the much lower locking ratio and reduced droop travel hurt it more. No doubt the OSG would be an improvement in the 86, but well down the list in NASA ST build points priority IMO.
Thanks for the replies gents. The Toyota reference was tongue in cheek ... and I agree with your riposte for the record!
Interesting that the chassis makes that much difference. I was eyeing off a clutch pack of some sort for my NB racecar due to the tradeoffs needed to keep that inside rear planted, but then I pulled the plug on the whole project before doing anything about it
08-22-2022, 06:49 PM
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