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Long time lurker here, with the random silly questions. I wanted to start a build thread, not to show anything off, but for the resources that may be available. If anyone has some solid suggestions, please feel free to suggest. I’m coming in this thread super late on my build, but I think I’m a bit past the noob stage, but not far past.
Lets get get into the basics of where I’m at. 1.6 car when I got it,
I scabbed together a build build with a 2560, with all the basic build knowledge I gathered up here and elsewhere. I fabbed up everything I could but went with an Artech dp and 3” exhaust. Obvious things were done along the way, pretty close to what everyone on here says the list and procedures should be. So here was the 1.6 in its glory, which of course was sort lived.
So short lived because I decided to vent the block by snapping a rod in half. I thought I was around 210-215 ft. lbs. when it let go, so I don’t believe the 1.6’s can reliably handle 250 ft. lbs. with any consistency anymore. So here is the first look and the evidence. I was working off virtual dyno,so it was a surprise for me to vent the block. I was trying to stay with a reasonable tune. I thought I was, lol.
I knew what I was getting into I had a 1.8 sitting on the side which I was hoping to slowly rebuild, it was pushed up. So this is the motor I ran into, ‘96
I’ll upload my progress in the next few posts along with the goals and direction of the build.
Last edited by whiprsnapr; 11-17-2018 at 05:36 PM.
Reason: Grammar, more info as I remember
I planned on doing a rods only motor, but as I tore into the motor it looked as if someone had been in before me. I chose to go a little deeper into the pocket and build a solid bottom end. Had eagle rods, arp studs, got new bearings, super tech pistons. Went with lower compression as where I live it just isn’t available enough to justify higher compression with e85. Doing all this ran me tight on money, so I’ll be keeping the head off the ‘96. I keep telling myself a solid 250hp is fine, but I wanted the option to grow if I wanted to. That and I still have my 5 speed.
Just some random pics along the way. The last picture is mocking up the motor while I wait for parts to come in.
Rebuilt the head, more for experience than anything else. I tried my hand at a diy port/polish. More of a polish, I didn’t want to change shape, just smoothing the bowls out, and cleaning up the casting. Don’t beat me up to bad, I’m just learning here.
I’m really excited how much I’ve learned along the way. I figured worse case it’s only a bp05 Head.
Last edited by whiprsnapr; 11-22-2018 at 10:32 AM.
windshield washer delete AND a non broken dipstick!? too cool for me
and where da brake booster?
I'll be following along with you... but I hope my 1.6 doesn't decide to gain any extra holes >_<
I delete way to much. Brake booster was prob one of my less great ideas, although I don’t mind a heavy brake, and I did change the brake pedal ratio. Who needs a windshield washer on a play car? The 1.6 was a great way to gain knowledge on the cheap. That was my second motor. Was really a junk yard motor that I hoped would last a bit longer. All that being said, I’ll prob start adding things back in, no ac in FL kinda sucks.
So short lived because I decided to vent the block by snapping a rod in half. I thought I was around 210-215 ft. lbs. when it let go, so I don’t believe the 1.6’s can reliably handle 250 ft. lbs. with any consistency anymore. So here is the first look and the evidence. I was working off virtual dyno,so it was a surprise for me to vent the block. I was trying to stay with a reasonable tune. I thought I was, lol.
The 1.6 uses exactly the same rods as the 1.8's. They're also forged steel so they shouldn't fatigue and get weaker over time. It also isn't technically torque that bends rods its cylinder pressure.
Either there was an existing hardware issue like a bad bearing, you were well over 215 wtq, or there was a tuning issue causing higher cylinder pressure.
Should be fun when it's done but I'd be trying really hard to find a vvt head. I'd also go with ARP main studs and a BE pump designed for vvt even if you won't run it right away. It's silly to skip those since you already went down the forged piston rabbit hole.
The 1.6 uses exactly the same rods as the 1.8's. They're also forged steel so they shouldn't fatigue and get weaker over time. It also isn't technically torque that bends rods its cylinder pressure.
Either there was an existing hardware issue like a bad bearing, you were well over 215 wtq, or there was a tuning issue causing higher cylinder pressure.
Should be fun when it's done but I'd be trying really hard to find a vvt head. I'd also go with ARP main studs and a BE pump designed for vvt even if you won't run it right away. It's silly to skip those since you already went down the forged piston rabbit hole.
I knew they were the same rods, I'd prob bet on tuning, or virtual dyno input was giving me false info. I'm weak on tuning, and after I vented the block I went back to some of my pulls and noticed I didn't adjust the temp or altitude on virtual dyno. I know it was pushing more than 205, but I really don't know how much. I was at 13-14 psi on a 2560, so again in my head, I should have been more than I was. I also was pretty darn stable with my ebc.
Have a boundary pump, arp studs as well. For some silly reason, I fought myself getting a boundary pump. I do my best to follow many of the build directions here and the "while you are in there" do these type ideas. but, money is always running. . .
I'd love to find a '99-00 head. I'd have to change too much for my power goals for a vvt. Rebuilding this head was purposed for learning, was thinking I could get this on the road, rebuild the head while I wait for parts and some money, then build a '99-00 head slowly when I have the time and money. That and my drivetrain is not set up for more, I made lots of decisions to in the history of the car to stay below 300hp. My goals are 250-270, fun daily. I don't want this car to be sitting getting wrenched on anymore, just want to drive a bit. Hoping I can do a fairly decent job on this build, so yeah, I appreciate the feedback.
I knew they were the same rods, I'd prob bet on tuning, or virtual dyno input was giving me false info. I'm weak on tuning, and after I vented the block I went back to some of my pulls and noticed I didn't adjust the temp or altitude on virtual dyno. I know it was pushing more than 205, but I really don't know how much. I was at 13-14 psi on a 2560, so again in my head, I should have been more than I was. I also was pretty darn stable with my ebc.
Have a boundary pump, arp studs as well. For some silly reason, I fought myself getting a boundary pump. I do my best to follow many of the build directions here and the "while you are in there" do these type ideas. but, money is always running. . .
I'd love to find a '99-00 head. I'd have to change too much for my power goals for a vvt. Rebuilding this head was purposed for learning, was thinking I could get this on the road, rebuild the head while I wait for parts and some money, then build a '99-00 head slowly when I have the time and money. That and my drivetrain is not set up for more, I made lots of decisions to in the history of the car to stay below 300hp. My goals are 250-270, fun daily. I don't want this car to be sitting getting wrenched on anymore, just want to drive a bit. Hoping I can do a fairly decent job on this build, so yeah, I appreciate the feedback.
13-14psi I would expect you to be in the 220-240whp range. How much ignition timing were you running? People have blown these motors with less boost though, it does happen.
13-14psi I would expect you to be in the 220-240whp range. How much ignition timing were you running? People have blown these motors with less boost though, it does happen.
Below is what I was running. I tried my best to hunt through posts and builds to figure out a conservative table, and this is what I came up with. I also had some help from a local guy who does quite well with his tuning skills. He is on this forum as well.
Below is what I was running. I tried my best to hunt through posts and builds to figure out a conservative table, and this is what I came up with. I also had some help from a local guy who does quite well with his tuning skills. He is on this forum as well.
I am by no means a tuning expert but I run much less timing up until 5700 rpm after that your timing map is very similar to mine. I have a 2560R @15-16psi with a built BP4W 8.5:1 compression. If I try to run more than 13-14* in the midrange ( 3800-5000rpm ) my knock sensor starts to make a bit of noise. I run a Hydra so its not and apples to apples comparison but if I was running that kind of timing 16-17* I would be seeing knock on my sensor. I have never heard knock on my car and I dont know how reliable the stock NB sensor is, but just something to consider.
Really nice work man. How long did it take you to do the stuff with the head? I might take a go at that over the winter if I get some down time and end up deciding to refresh the head. Looks really nice.
Thanks, I had a bunch (lots) of late nights after the fam went to bed in getting the head rebuilt. I had to wait on money and parts and I really wanted to learn. I’d say go for it. I stayed away from changing shape on the ports, just focused on smoothing and cleaning up the bowls. Take your time. There are some great you tube video’s that helped me grasp some of the basic ideas. I still have yet to see if things have helped, so the jury is out.
Well, motor is in, dp had to be refabbed, clocked as it sat against the footwell, then once I clocked it I had to wedge two of the lower welds to give room around the trans. Really fits quite well now but man what a pain. Hot side charge pipe still fits well, actually I think better than the 1.6. Cold side will be my last fab work before I start up. Getting close now!
one question I had about tps, does anyone know the wiring for the 3 wire tps 1.8 to the 1.6 harness. I found the 4 wire but am having some trouble finding the 3. Pic attached.
Thanks, I found one pic shared on the forum, just wanted to get confirmation. I’m electronically impaired, so I have no idea what I’m looking at, when I’m looking at the answer.
I was was able to wrap up a bunch of little things. Extended the throttle cable bracket, didn’t have a 1.8 cable, buttoned up the wiring to the cas, grounds, and gauges on the back side of the motor. Made a bracket for my weird actuator, on the 1.6 it sat up super high, so I had to make it work. Was able to set it off to the side, and had to shorted it a little. Refabbed the heat shield to fit again, nothing big, just a trim. Hopefully this weekend I’ll have a bit of time to knock out the rest of the small stuff.
09-09-2018, 04:10 PM
Grabber - nowhere fast
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