Well that explains my massive steering effort lol, didn't realize the ELBJ did that.

Nice selection of parts, you're gonna love the xidas

-3.4deg at 5" is impressive. Matched on both sides?

I understand the compromise. I have a depowered rack. I'm initially going to use 949's race alignment guidelines (see their website) to fit these 10's in the wheel wells. Likely setting up pinch weld height at ~4.25" F/R and going from there. The guys at 949 have been my main reference for a lot of this purchase and they recommended the ELBJ for my setup I described. Not trying to come off as a nut-swinger, but I've done a lot of research online prior to this and feel like Emillio's team has no reason to lead me wrong. They definitely have more competitive Miata experience than I do, especially with something this aggressive. Some forum users say I'd need them, some say I won't. I'd like to mention that your comment of hitting -3.4deg at 5" is in the minority of things I've read. Better safe than sorry in my opinion. If the steering is more difficult, so be it. New joints is never a bad thing, and knowing I can hit alignment targets is nice.

Should clarify, I'm saying hitting -3.4 at a ride height of 5" without the use of ELBJ or offset bushings is impressive to me.

^agreed

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...1/#post1318188

No problem getting below 5* here with ELBJ.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bd9b5e4133.png

949 states on their website that the ELBJ's simply add 1.2deg of camber to whatever you have now if all eccentric bolt settings went unchanged and that 4deg caster is possible soooo... yeah... aiden's results seem typical which is why i went the ELBJ route

Damnit, I'm back to no excuses for my steering effort other than I'm weak haha

It'd be better if Thumpetto didn't speak in absolutes. His experience, as usual, was exceptionally bad haha

I can't get below 5.5* caster with offset lower bushings (3* camber), but 5.5* feels great to me.

Offset lower bushings do not affect caster in the same way that ELBJ do.

Suspension is confusing. Lots of misinformation going on here.

Well, that'd certainly be worth discussing. The offset lower bushing will affect the geometry of the entire arm, while the ELBJ doesn't. Which one will affect caster more? Please do clear up the misinformation if you can!

I struggle to explain it in text but I will give it a shot.

ELBJ:

The control arm with a normal ball joint and adjusted for say 3* of camber. will have some caster range. Caster is adjusted by moving the rear cam bolt, once desired camber is reached (with the front cam bolt). Most likely the cam bolts will be in different locations, meaning the arm is pointing out from the car at "an angle". Then when you add an ELBJ it moves the bottom of the upright out, at the angle that the arm is pointed. This adds camber, (and a small amount of caster), probably more camber than you need.

But your caster should stay pretty much the same. Now you have 4+* of camber though, and you need to pull some out (by moving the front cam bolt in). This means more caster (because the bj is moving in an arc, and towards the front of the car). So now that you have had to bring the front cam bolt in, your caster has increased, and the smallest amount of caster you can get has increased.

Offset front lower control arm bushing:

The control arm with a normal ball joint and adjusted for say 3* of camber. will have some caster range. Caster is adjusted by moving the rear cam bolt, once desired camber is reached (with the front cam bolt). Most likely the cam bolts will be in different locations, meaning the arm is pointing out from the car at "an angle". When you add an offset lower bushing, it moves the front of the control arm away from the body. Which moves the lower ball joint "back" (because its traveling in an arc). By moving it back, you get less caster, while still increasing camber.

Now you can add more caster in, by moving the rear cam bolt out.

What it all boils down to, is you shouldn't be willy nilly installing parts. Get an alignment, find out what max camber you can hit. If you can't hit what you want then look at your options. If thumpetto can hit 3.5* camber at 5* ride height then he obviously didn't need ELBJ. But most people can't do that. His car might just be bent.

Not sure that helps anyone. Its hard to explain without waving my hands around.

No, that makes sense to me. So you're saying the ELBJ will increase minimum caster more than offset bushings will, correct?

That's consistent with what Marcello and I experienced with our cars, but not with what you and I experienced. You have lower minimum caster than I do, while utilizing ELBJ's.

@Padlock Let me know if you want us to take this conversation to another thread.

NA vs NB. Also no idea on the history of my car. Its been in at least 1 accident when I didn't own it. And been airborne a few times since I bought it.

aren't you running NB front subframe/suspension bits?

Also, mine is a 200k mile chassis :hahano:

Nope. NA

Ah. Not directly comparable, then.

We can keep this discussion rolling here. I like learning

I think it's over. :dunno: