I'm blocking you on socials and staying out of your build thread until summer. No more bad influences on me. I forgot you were the first one to mention the Jag 8HP compatibility and send me down this road But yeah thanks, it should be a fun journey.

Dude no sweat! Glad to lend a hand. And now if something breaks, I can at least say it might've been my fault hahaha. I will absolutely take you up on borrowing that welder. Will hit you up this week.

Roda, agreed with you regarding the driver workload part. Should be an added bonus for sure now that I'm sorta hanging on for dear life while driving this thing lol. The real main reason I dove down this rabbit hole is that I want to be able to run another 20-30whp on track (as I'm still below my car's class HP limit) without worrying about nuking another 6-speed. Then I saw a video of an NC guy banging through gears with his 8hp and dropping only maybe 1,200rpm between each shift. Icing on the cake. Then saw how cheap the transmissions were. More icing on the cake. But paddle shifters? Oh hell yeah, triple icing on the cake haha.

​As ​​@rb92673 stated above, I ended up coming down to his place for a bit to help work on the car yesterday. My original plan for Memorial Day weekend was to race Sonoma with NASA NorCal. However, after getting a message from him saying they needed an extra driver for the 25 Hours of Lemons at Thunderhill, I absolutely couldn't pass the offer up. Gonna be a weekend full of firsts. First time driving T-hill, first time racing at night, first time driving wheel-to-wheel, first time in an Ecotec swap, probably many more firsts I'm not thinking of haha. Very excited.



In related news to the above comments, I bought a transmission, starter, and driveshaft from an 80k mile Jag on the way over to RB's place. Cost $446 delivered and the local junker will be dropping everything off at my work on Thursday.

Looking back, I'm going to have to cancel the driveshaft, though. I went off of a FB group post where one of the main NC 8HP guys stated he just had a driveshaft shop splice the end of the Jag driveshaft onto his existing Miata driveshaft. Sounded nice and easy to me until I realized the Jag uses CV's and the Miata's got u-joints. I'm down to do some questionable things, but not to that extent. Gonna look into getting a driveshaft made. The 8HP uses a popular flange and there's a couple flange/adapter options for driveshaft builders. The stock shaft in the Jag uses a 6 bolt flange that slips into the output shaft. I'm gonna try and find an option to eliminate the flange and have a u joint-style driveshaft made that slips straight onto the output shaft splines.




Of course this guy is out of stock^^^

Anyone have input on driveshaft building and/or have a good shop they can refer me to? My local shop, Drivelines, is supposed to be kick *** and they've done stuff for all sorts of race vehicles, some of Ken Block's old cars, Nascar, 1,000hp drag cars, etc. However, when I came to them for the driveshaft on my Kpower ZF swap and asked if they could make something that got rid of the trans and diff adapters, the owner just gave me a curt "Nah, can't do it." Put a sh*t taste in my mouth and kinda killed my confidence in what these shops can do. I've got a couple shops I'm gonna call based on stuff I've seen in the 8HP FB groups, but if anyone's got input, I'd love to hear it.

I also ordered a Flex plate this morning as the junker didn't have one available. For some reason, a 2.0L gas XE flex plate was kinda hard to find. Any 2012-2019 Land Rover with a 2.0L EcoBoost (or whatever they call it in the Land Rovers) uses the same part # flex plate, though, so I just bought one of those. Looks like the 2013-2015 Jag XF 2.0 also uses the same part. Not sure if the trans itself is the same or different, but eBay showed the flex plates as being interchangeable.






More updates to come. Once I get all the parts in, I should be able to bolt everything up to my backup motor and minimally make sure that the starter/flexplate combo functions.

 

E/ I confused the images above, you are correct on the Jag having a different flange style. Haven't seen that slip style on the output of an 8HP before, that's certainly interesting and I'm unaware of any adapters for it. It does resemble the output shaft of the 8HP's that were bolted to transfer cases in AWD applications, so that might be something to explore. Leaving my OG comment for reference:

That 8HP output looks to be the same 6 bolt flange as the Dodge one. Can't confirm if the Jag and Dodge boxes share the same output flange, but if so, the Sonax flange is the easy button for your driveshaft shop of choice and will adapt directly to a standard 1350 U-joint. I had my shaft built out of aluminum by a local shop so it was a fairly pricy $1200, to do the same out of steel should be a great deal less if you do end up getting a custom shaft.
It's a good idea to have a CV joint on at least one side, preferably both, to help with harmonics. That being said, I have zero CV's on mine and it hasn't exploded or produced hellish vibrations *thus far*

I've already said it in our chats, but to state it for the wider web, the Achilles heel of the 8HP is managing driveshaft speed and harmonics. Exceeding 8000rpm on the output shaft in 1-6th will, sooner rather then later, result in your gearbox tearing itself in half. 7/8th should be kept under 5500rpm output speed and full load should not be applied through them, they are really only cruising gears. So all your track gearing calculations should be done with 1-6th.
I'd also suggest keeping the transmission mount some sort of rubber/soft mount, and not hard/solid mounting it... Again, harmonics here will mess things up quick. Every 8HP failure I've seen this far was from overspeed, vibrations, insufficient fluid, or solid mounting.

 

Damn, you're a lifesaver. The next thing I was about to do was go back to your thread and look for your driveshaft post. Saved me all of three minutes haha.

Hold up, though, I got more than a few points to touch on but it's kosher to run a shaft with one CV and one U-joint? I was under the impression that's generally a bad idea. If it's not, this whole thing might be much simpler.

Ok, in reference to your comment regarding the 6 bolt flange, I believe the 8HP45 I have coming has the same 6 bolt flange as yours and others'. That slip-on yoke in the second pic above is an aftermarket unit, not what mine's coming with. I think you're right, the Sonax flange is the easy button and I might just grab one of those. However, I also saw that Domiworks makes a direct 8HP to 1350 flange adapter that could work nicely and get rid of the 6-bolt flange entirely. If anyone has these in stock in the states or it's not a crazy long wait to get it from Europe, that could be viable as well.

Domiworks 8HP Transmission Output Flange for 1350 Yokes - Touge Factory

I'm gonna hit up Seems Legit Garage tomorrow too and see what's up with their driveshaft-building service. They've already put multiple 8HP swaps into the wild on this chassis so maybe I'll get lucky and they already have flanges, measurements, etc offhand to build a shaft for this thing.

Thanks again for the heads up on output shaft speed limits. I ran the numbers and with a 4.1 rear end, I'm gonna be at 125mph in 6th gear (1:1 ratio) at 6,900rpm. This is fine for every track around here aside from Big Willow. With a 3.7 FD, that number increases to 138mph, which should be fine or Big Willow, as I was hitting 135mph max there at around 300whp. If I need a little more MPH, I can always bump my redline up another 100rpm and run that only when I need it at the end of turn 8 and beginning of the front straight.

LOJ conversions makes bolt-up trans mounts to mate the Jag 8HP's to a standard crossmember-style support. I'll probably grab one of those. They use a standard GM-style mount so I'll grab a rubber one and run it like that.

ZF 8HP Swap Transmission Mount for Jaguar 8HP70 and 8HP45 – LOJ Conversions

 

What are you going to use to control the 8HP?

 

I'm unaware of this being a no no, if you find contradicting info from a reputable source, listen to them, not me haha. I know double CV is the "optimum" solution. Maybe ask SLG for their input when you call them. With your lower redline and bigger wheels it's probably not nearly as big an issue as us that rev out past 7k and are still stuck in the past with tiny 15" wheels.

 

I'm almost certain I'm going to use a TurboLamik for TCU function. Confirmed via a couple other guys that it supports CAN communication with the factory NC ECU. Gonna call them this week too to talk specifics before ordering.

Copy that. I'll keep the thread updated.

 

I'm signed up for BW, but the car started making a loud banging noise in this morning's race at Thunderhill. Something let go in the driveline -- diff or transmission I suspect. We'll see what the guys at TC say, but I don't know if BW is in the cards :(

--Ian

 

Dang! Sorry to hear man. If this coming weekend doesn't work out, I'll be back out there for the next event in June. We'll dial it in and link up one weekend, I swear haha.

 

That sounds like it'll be a great time. I'd love to hear how you feel about the Ecotec swap for my own reasons.

This thread is just full of bad ideas. My daily is an uninspiring Mazda 6 sedan that's slowly falling apart due to Ford build quality. It's boring, but it has a very well maintained 2.5 MZR sitting right there, tempting me.

 

He will probably take it out for a stint and bring it back in with a turbo upgrade.

 

It CAN be kosher depending on how you set things up.
With Zero angle on the U-Joint there won't be accel/decel, and the CV is just that, constant velocity. But then the needles don't ever move and you can kill U-joints with lack of movement/flatening needles, etc.

Ideally you have Ujoint Pairs, in time with each other, and at inverse offset angles, this keeps the input at the same velocity as the output, even when the shaft is accelerating/decelerating with the joint positions.
OR, you go with both sides CV, or one CV and one "cardan" joint (essentially 2 Ujoints in one setup).

 

In 4 transmission swap content.

 

I think it's going to be a blast. Well, of course it's going to be a blast, but if the P2W ratio is anything like my 2.5 swap pre-turbo, the EcoTec swap should be very enjoyable to drive. 180whp in my car was such a sweet spot for track use. Not super fast, more like just enough power to not feel "slow". And not so much power that it detracts from being able to focus on driving as well as possible. I've found that it's much harder to hit all my marks perfectly with 300whp vs 180 haha.

I've got a load of cam buckets I can send you if you wanna put some hot cams in your 6 and make it a little more "inspired" lol.

Glad you trust and have faith in me. If anything, it might have the opposite effect on me. It'll be nice driving a car again where I'm not on edge about turbo stuff going haywire.

Yo, thanks a ton for chiming in on this bit. That's about what I thought was the problem with CV/U-joint mixture, just couldn't put it eloquently/muster up the brain power to try to.

Wonder if I could get away for a bit running that setup with just a very shallow pinion angle.

Latest development: I might just grab one of these guys from a guy in Aussieland. Replaces the whole output shaft spline to CV adapter and is drilled for a standard 1350 flange. Seems like it would eliminate a little bit of extra weight and bring the joint closer to the output shaft, maybe even lessening the overhang load on the output bearing? The guy making these charges $268 USD shipped for one which is less than the popular Sonax flange costs. Domiworks makes a similar unit as well for $320 but I haven't confirmed if anyone stocks them in the states or if they have to ship from Europe.

 

Is that an ABS ring I see? Miata spacing?

 

Yeah, it's a speed sensor ring, but for the transmission output shaft. It's just an add-on that he offers if it's needed for the application. That flange replaces the 8HP output shaft flange and allows a 1350 driveshaft flange to mate with the transmission. The standard output flange mates up with a CV joint.

Back and forth with Mike at Seems Legit Garage earlier today. Lots of good info. Posting in case someone in the future is looking for info regarding transplanting an 8HP45 into their NC.






Lots cleared up with that convo. Although I said I'm gonna roll with the factory ECU, I'm still kinda sorta thinking about the MAXXECU. Just doing that would require a complete engine harness rewire and full retune and relearning a whole new tuning studio... And thinking about the 20-30+ hours of work that will probably take is making me want to vomit.

 

Fingers crossed, but it looks like it should be sorted. TCD pulled the trans, and when they drained it a bunch of gear teeth came out. First time I've done that since the Miata 5-speed! Clutch was fine, and there's no reason to suspect anything more than that. I found a used transmission locally (I run an E36 ZF 5-speed), got it over to the shop, and assuming nothing else shows up it should be ready to go for the weekend.

If you want to hear some auditory carnage, the first weird sounds show up in turn 5 on the first lap.
--Ian

 

Bad news! I thought wet tracks were supposed to make it easier in drivetrains?

I hope you have better luck with the replacement. Any diagnosis on the failure?

 

I've dabbled in a LOT of different tuning setups,
And in my experience MAXX is one of the easier to understand and tweak. The hardest part about it is the fact that options/tables don't show up unless the correct inputs/outputs are assigned to enable them.

The real strength in the MAXX setup is it's flexibility. I have yet to think of something where I just couldn't get the maxx to do it, where I have run into this problem quite a bit with haltech/megasquirt/link.
Every table can have it's Axis sources redefined to pretty much any source value in the ECU, be it a sensor, or a calculated value.
CanBus is infinitely flexible with the MAXX, down to filtering single bits out of messages, and generating messages with individual bits if needed. Not to mention the Awesome CanBus Analyzer they have built in.
Support for MAXX is also very helpful and willing to add features. Adding a trigger pattern for a weird engine can be done in a matter of days if not hours.

The wiring though... I hear you there. It's always a slog (and here I am considering redoing my piggyback harness yet again to get fresh air antilag via the EGR)

 

I'm also a Maxx user, above is pretty spot on. Flexibility and support is incredible. Get the Race or Pro, depending on your i/o needs. I run the Race, but also have the PDM which gives me another half dozen i/o ports.

 

Ouch. I cringed a bit at the end of the lap even just listening through my crap computer speakers haha. Glad to hear you found a replacement. How long did that trans last you? You're not pushing crazy power in that car I thought?

Anyone else you know going to be there? I'll PM you my number so we can maybe park close this weekend. Myself and three or four buddies will be camping in the paddock. I'll probably get there around 11 or so Friday night.

Thanks for the feedback on the MAXXECU platform, guys. Still weighing my options. If the factory ECU is viable to work with the Lamik, I'll probably go that route. I'm not ruling out the MAXX, just really don't want to add 30 hours of work to this project. Maybe that makes me a b*tch haha.

Spoke to the guys at Seems Legit Garage already and they think I should be ok. Waiting to hear back from a couple guys in EU running their NC's with a factory ECU and the Lamik, as well as TurboLamik.us themselves for some feedback.