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noob boosts 1.6 instead of 1.8 swap
I've been around the forum for a little over a year and this thread is a couple months past due. It's been hard to work up the courage to start this thread because so many of you have amazing builds and honestly mine is pretty ghetto. I've made a post in the meet and great and it was pretty unspectacular. I don't expect much out of this one either.
I have watched many of you build simple DIY turbo'd cars and it's always something I thought I could do. So I figured I would give it a shot. This past winter my fiancée at the time bought me the AHP AlphaTIG 200X on my recommendation after seeing the great results many of you had here. I wanted to model my build after the MKTurbo as much as possible because of all the wonderful results documented here. Mine is based on a T25 over the T3 because I wanted to go with an SR20 turbo and since I still have a 1.6 I wanted the spool to be as good as possible. My exhaust is a full 3 inch without a cat or resonator and paired with everyone's favorite muffler. Aluminized steel with stainless vbands. Photo dump incoming. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2f178c72bf.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bc8e388e38.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f01b763b3f.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...df69f10e58.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...80dd9015f7.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...414c0cbcc9.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...92ac180264.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...010f7c398a.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8241bd9e68.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8f52de512e.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7c19fb0738.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...344e281ed2.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...abbd204b9a.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d5e44356fe.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...01dffe5d92.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...48c82dd330.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...61f6db6dac.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ad76b864ff.jpg |
Next set of photos is the intercooler piping. Its all 2.5 inch aluminized steel because I still suck at welding aluminum. Using the recommended Vibrant intercooler.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c3bd84738.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b9d50b0d83.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5ad67b9636.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...005e0c8cc6.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c16de895df.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...656a3be319.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9f0088256c.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ce89ec0635.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...440bbe8acb.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c72cc1740a.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...65dc1f6169.jpg |
Custom wrench for water lines on turbo.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ce32d7d363.jpg FM1 clutch https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...265bcba155.jpg |
Before I swapped the clutch I ran with the SR20 turbo for a bit with the wastegate open and quickly learned it needed rebuilding. I didn't want the car to be undrivable during this time so I bought an ebay turbo. The spool is ok. Will post logs later.
Here is what it currently looks like. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...90dbac1ac0.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f7bc378d45.jpg |
My plans for the future are to continue driving the car as is for the rest of summer slowing tweaking and adjusting things as needed. Build an MS3x this winter. Next summer search for VVT motor and turn up the boost until the 1.6 breaks. So many things I will change on the next go around. I opted to stay with the 1.6 for now because I wanted to learn how to do things and it made sense to learn on a motor no one cares about.
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Great work dude. Was this your excuse to learn to tig? What are you using for fuel control?
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Looks good. Hopefully you found it easy to copy my setup. This is exactly how you DIY it and do it on the cheap.
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1430593)
Great work dude. Was this your excuse to learn to tig? What are you using for fuel control?
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1430598)
Looks good. Hopefully you found it easy to copy my setup. This is exactly how you DIY it and do it on the cheap.
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1 Attachment(s)
Here is a virtual dyno I did yesterday. I am guessing on the weight of the car. No ps/ac, roll bar, kirkey seats, torsen, 6uls.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d00be4ad02.jpg I attempted to attach the log of the pull. If it didn't attach or don't want to open the here is some spool data: I had trigger logging enabled and the set point was 60% TPS. At 65% TPS I was at 1739 RPM and was at full throttle at 1800 rpm, was shooting for 2000 rpm but clearly, I was excited. 1800 : 105 kPa = 0.7 psi 2046 : 115 kPa = 2.1 psi 2379 : 122 kPa = 3.2 psi 2665 : 129 kPa = 4.2 psi 2794 : 136 kPa = 5.2 psi 2914 : 143 kPa = 6.2 psi 3016 : 150 kPa = 7.2 psi 3126 : 157 kPa = 8.2 psi 3259 : 164 kPa = 9.2 psi Boost tapers here until 4229 RPM when I start to creep. I creep to 191 kPa (13 psi) and stay there for the remainder of the pull. I have already ported this turbo wastegate once but left plenty on the bones because it was my first time doing so. Looks like I need to revisit that. Overall I think I can be pretty happy with the spool for a 1.6 with a turbo that's probably a bit too big. I'm using basically a stock ignition map. |
I honestly wouldn't bother porting any more. In fact, I'd probably just turn up the boost and even it out so it's 13 everywhere.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1431157)
I honestly wouldn't bother porting any more. In fact, I'd probably just turn up the boost and even it out so it's 13 everywhere.
Is that logic flawed? If I creep to 13 and boost holds there does that basically mean that's the upper limit of my creep? |
I've seen rare occasions where what you're proposing happening, but rarely and only if there's another problem too. But for the most part, and according to design, it shouldn't. An MBC, or properly tuned closed loop EBC specifically works around a problem such as this. Plenty of small turbo 1.6's to 14 even 15psi without any issues, because look at how little power/torque you're actually making.
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alright cool, thanks for the info. I'll do some more research and give it a shot.
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So I finally wired up sequential injection. I know I should have done it from the start but was too scared of messing it up. I figured if I could turbo the car, I could add two freaking wires. It really was quite simple. In case anyone who hasn't done it yet comes across this, this is what I did.
I bought two of these Injector Connector Kit. Ballenger Motorsports is awesome and has a compiled list of Miata connectors. I found it in the connector witch-hunt thread but gonna post it again here. Also borrowed a from work for the connectors in the kit. I have an MS2e so I needed to switch some stuff around for it.
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 1341380)
Remove jumpers JP4 and JP5.
Install jumpers on JP7, JP8, JP9, JP10. Change the settings to use additional drivers (from standard drivers) and sequential injection. 4U = Cyl 1 4V = Cyl 2 4Y = Cyl 3 4Z = Cyl 4 |
I decided I hated my ugly TPS bracket and hi_im_sean was gracious enough to give us his design so I figured I would print one.
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean
(Post 1426457)
Yea you have two choices on ground, either end of the element, and since the factory harness lands on one of those, no need to open the TPS. I didn't think of the PNP type ECUs that don't utilize an adapter harness that allows you to customize where the wires go, but... I still think it'd be easier and cleaner to re-pin the TPS connector, or ECU connector than to modify the TPS itself. Also saves your warranty since we seem to kill a lot of TPSs on our cars.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2425389 https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2526ae19ea.jpg |
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9c6fe14ec5.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d2afd99c35.jpg Installed some sport brakes this past weekend that I got from turbofan. I knew they were gonna be bigger than my stock NA6 brakes but damn! The new rear rotors are bigger than the old front rotors. |
Great thread, very helpful for those of us trying to DIY our way to a turbo 1.6. I'm thinking about a T25 too, are you planning on a dyno visit once everything is done? I'd be excited to see.
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Thanks. Turbo'd 5000 miles+ and I do not plan on visiting a dyno. I would rather put that money towards an MS3x or K series. Not worth it on a 1.6 IMO.
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How do you like the sport brakes compared to the stock 1.6 brakes? Did you also change out the booster and master cylinder? I have a whole sport setup sitting in my shop, but I haven’t installed it due to lack of availability of track pads. I’ve been running the stock 1.6 brakes with Stoptech/GLOC pads without issues. I’ve been putting off sequential injection, but it sounds like it’s worth it just to get the idle right. I’ve been tuning for months, and the idle is still not as good as I would like. AFR bounces around quite a bit when warm. |
TBH I can't tell much of a difference between the two but its also all been street driving so far. I think it requires more pedal pressure than stock 1.6 brakes and I believe that's because I still have the stock booster/master cylinder. I would like to upgrade those at some point. Staying on 1.6 brakes would probably be fine for how I use the car at this point but I like how these bigger brakes fill out the rim more :jerkit:
I cannot express how much better sequential injection is. Seriously, just do it. It was instantly noticeable. If I could do it all over again it would have been the first thing I would have done after getting the car to run on megasquirt. It's also nice to see you stop by because I've watched your threads and our cars are super similar. |
Our cars are very similar. It is interesting that they have around the same amount of power, and similar spool characteristics, even though I’m running a T3/T4 and you’re running a T25. |
Yeah, I am by no means an expert but here is my guess why. I would be expecting faster spool on my car if I was using an actual sr20 T25. The one I had needed rebuilding so I just bought a cheap ebay T25. I measured both wheels and they are both bigger than the sr20 turbo I had. If I had to guess our turbos are probably super close in size, I just happen to be using a T25 flange. Your manifold probably flows better than mine, the turbo flange area sucks and I should have spent more time cleaning it up. Noob mistakes. I am on a full 3 inch so that might make the manifold a wash. After reading your thread, I need to pick up an MBC. I also want to mess with open loop boost control on my MS2e but I don't know if its worth it.
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The ebay churbos seem pretty inconsistent, it may be that ours are actually very similar even though they’re spec’d differently. I’m also MS2, I bought the solenoid for EBC and never installed it. My MBC is working really well and is dead simple, I see no need to go to a more complicated setup. |
I've got the solenoid as well, which is why I'm even considering it.
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I have never found an ebay China t2 that I have been happy with spool and top end. It is partly the reason I went with the t3 that I did.
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I understand. I never questioned your reasons, I questioned my knowledge and figured a t25 was my best bet for some semblance of spool on my 1.6. Just got a bit hosed by my s20 turbo being leaky and bought an ebay turbo to me going.
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Originally Posted by Joseph Conley
(Post 1476011)
I understand. I never questioned your reasons, I questioned my knowledge and figured a t25 was my best bet for some semblance of spool on my 1.6. Just got a bit hosed by my s20 turbo being leaky and bought an ebay turbo to me going.
It was more a statement about the turbo's China makes. I would love it if china made an exact copy of the gt2554 and it worked as well as a legit one. I would probably be building t2 setups now instead of t3 if they did. Or give me the exact turbo I use now, but with a t2 flange and the standard outlet pattern, but have the same cast v-band piece. Then I would be in heaven. |
No, its ok. I should feel bad. I turbo'd a 1.6 instead of swapping to a 1.8. :fawk:
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Storytime.
A friend of mine went with me to the Ohio Miata Owners swap meet this past summer and he was bitten by the Miata bug. He's been in other stockish Miatas but I guess mine put him over the edge. We both live in Ohio and he decided we should fly out to LA to purchase a car and drive it back. Left on Thursday, bought a car on Friday. Spent Friday night in Vegas then visited the Hoover Dam and the Grand Canyon. We where home by 7 PM Monday. 3000+ mile trip. It was a lot of fun. I got to drive the car across the dam, down the Vegas strip, and at ~6800 ft elevation. I don't envy anyone at elevation, some hills where brutal. We found a mint 2001 Miata with a 6 speed and 108k miles. Blue with a blue top and tan interior, Nardi package. The dealer we bought it off bought it off CarMax, who the original owner sold it to. The car had all the service records and was always serviced at a Mazda dealer. It was my first time driving an NB, VVT, and a 6 speed. The differences where pretty shocking between my 91 and the 01. What a difference 10 years make! https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...40c931a4fe.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ea669f84f2.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4dcde825d6.jpg |
Long time since an update. Been pretty busy with life. A couple of months ago I pulled the turbo off to port the wastegate a bit more and noticed that the wastegate flapper never fully covers the port. Ebay turbo life. Decided to cut off the arm and reweld in a better position. That went pretty well and I was able to port quite a bit more.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...390c6c6317.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d4a8d27aac.jpg Next, I decided to wire up a boost controller and make a better heat shield. The new heat shield works great and I know I shouldn't mount it to both the body and motor but oh well. Best I could do with the time I had. There is a good amount of flex in the metal and is holding up very well. The boost controller is working fantastic. Took me a while to dial in the open loop table but I am so happy I did. Between the wastegate being corrected and doing this spool feels like its improved quite a bit. Haven't had time to get out to a flat low traffic road to do any logs though. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bbc09d54aa.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7bbf8c7fce.jpg Then my fuel pump relay went bad. Replaced it by bypassing it with the DW fuel pump hardwire kit. After using the DW fuel pump kit wired directly to my battery my fuel map in boost was super rich. Makes sense as the pump can probably pull more power now and can maintain a higher fuel pressure. Adjusted tune and life has been great. I am kicking myself in the ass though, I got a tow but I could have just jumped the fuel pump relay in the diag box but with the car dying in the middle of an interception I was pretty worked up and just forgot. At the time I didn't know it was the relay, just thought it was the pump and think to try. The tow guy was super awesome, very courteous and respectful of the car. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4b09df60a0.jpg And finally, the big news. My wife and I have decided to build our dream house(that we can afford). We just closed with the loan and expect to break ground any day now. I am so excited. I get to move out of my 1 car garage and into this bad boy. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a20e1c57e9.jpg We have been thinking about doing this for years so I've had a list I built up of all the things we wanted and we are doing pretty much all of them. |
I only saw the 2 car garage space initially and had a lot of questions, then I saw the rest. Badass update!
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Originally Posted by Shibby
(Post 1491683)
I only saw the 2 car garage space initially and had a lot of questions, then I saw the rest. Badass update!
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https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...539620b0dc.jpg
We've got basement walls now. Working on getting temporary electricity so framing can start. Fun fact, our neighbor's driveway is actually on our property. The property line is pretty much the side of the drive closest to the neighbors. I think this guarantees they will be nice to us lol. |
Little car update: Replaced my stock 26-year-old engine mounts for some OEM competition mounts. I had been missing 2nd to 3rd shift quite a bit and this appears to have fixed that.
Big house update: Its starting to look like one! https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f13e10c9a2.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...aaf258ba01.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...41c8287b67.jpg |
Nice looking thread. I miss having a garage!
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Originally Posted by Stealth97
(Post 1500179)
Nice looking thread. I miss having a garage!
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You and Steve Dallas need to start a club
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The 'can't afford Miata parts because building a house' club.
At least we will have a place to fix them when they break. I've always found it interesting the differences in building style/requirements because of location. Where I'm at it seems pretty rare to not have a basement, but in places like Texas, I think its pretty rare to see. I just received my Monoprice order for all my speaker and cat6 wire/connectors. Main living room, master bedroom, and garage should all be wired for surround sound. I plan on also running wiring for whole home audio. Every room will have 2 cat6 drops, key rooms will have 4. House will be wired for PoE security cameras as well. |
What’s the narrow space in the basement behind the 2 car long garage? Stairwell? |
Originally Posted by bahurd
(Post 1500248)
What’s the narrow space in the basement behind the 2 car long garage? Stairwell? |
Originally Posted by Joseph Conley
(Post 1500249)
Yep, I wanted a second set of stairs to the basement. I didn't want to have to walk through the house to get to the basement.
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read through your build, I like it a lot. I'm working on mine now (finishing up maintenance soon i hope) and I'm going TD04. It will be interesting to see how they compare (im 1.6 also).
Nice house! I'm still in a rental... and I've never seen a basement much less been in one so I've never really paid their entrance and exit any thought :D |
Thanks, guys. TD04 with all other things being equal should spool a decent bit better than my eBay T25.
I really want to go to a K series. However, after the house is finished I doubt I will be able to swing a motor swap. I will probably try and make a better flowing manifold and stay with the 1.6/T25 combo until I can save up enough to go K swap. Materials to make the new manifold/downpipe would be under 200 dollars and only cost me my time. It would be fun to see the spool differences between log and low mount manifolds on my car. |
Wouldn't it be faster/cheaper/easier to rebuild your actual t25?
The difference between the real deal and the churbo would be interesting as well. Then I would bet any manifold/DP changes would be even more noticeable as well... |
I bought a rebuild kit and attempted to rebuild but there is still way too much play in the shaft. I clearly messed something up or bought the wrong rebuild kit. I'm not sure and I am a bit over it.
I would rather spend my time making a new manifold than figuring out where I went wrong with the turbo rebuild. Making the log was fun, and making a more complex manifold would also be enjoyable. Gives me a chance to practice welding more. Maybe after that, I might feel like revisiting rebuilding the turbo. Another rebuild kit would cover almost half of the materials to make a new manifold. At this point, it's more about learning fabrication than improving performance for me. I enjoy that almost as much as driving the car. |
Getting there! Since last update the roof is on, windows/doors in, plumbing is 80% done.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c36df5f1fe.jpg |
"When you pull your car into the garage does your house say 'Is it in yet?'".
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Originally Posted by 90LowNSlo
(Post 1503020)
"When you pull your car into the garage does your house say 'Is it in yet?'".
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Miata went into winter storage at my father's garage 3 weeks ago, I just didn't have the time to enjoy it and I needed 4 doors to haul stuff around.
Cement is in. HVAC is in. Electrical is in. Septic is in. Most of our inspections are done. Insulation and siding go on this week. Most of last week I spend running low voltage in the house while the electrician was there. 2000 ft of CAT6. 750 ft of speaker wire. 25 ethernet drops all ran to the basement where my server rack will live. Every room has at least 2 drops. The living room is wired for 9.2 surround sound. Master bedroom wired for 5.1. Both living room and master have redundant wires ran in the wall in case we ever wanna switch to in-wall speakers. Wires ran for whole home audio. Who knows if I will ever use all of it but I figured I would only have one chance to do this so I went all out. I also got a second job at Best Buy 2 weeks ago just to get the employee discount to buy all of our appliances. Here are a couple teaser photos of whats been going on. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...64dfb5a66e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b17ace8b5c.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ae3f29e923.jpg |
That's definitely the way to go... WIFI is for scrubs.
You forgot HDMI though :D |
Originally Posted by 90LowNSlo
(Post 1509652)
That's definitely the way to go... WIFI is for scrubs.
You forgot HDMI though :D HDMI will be pulled through the conduit after drywall is up. Mainly because my Best Buy discount isn't active yet... |
Hoping to move in February! I cannot wait to get in and have more room to start working on the Miata again.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3b803bf259.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0e12926908.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...313b6f5d24.jpg |
That would a million dollar house/property in the keys.
Looks amazing. |
Thanks, I have a cousin who lives outside of Tampa and he said the same thing. We wanted to build a forever home so we went all out with what we could afford while taking into account if one of us got sick or couldn't work anymore.
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Finally a Miata related update. I've had one big goal for it after we get into our new house and it starts here:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...34b8438cac.jpg |
I would suggest adding a urinal in the garage if its not too late.
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Way too late, but I did try in the beginning. Wife said hell no. The basement will have one though, that way I can wash my hands and stuff without having to go through any living areas. Hoping to start moving in middle of February.
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