Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-09-2015, 09:57 AM   #21
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

Ive been playing around with virtual dyno a little bit.
I forgot to screenshot it, but even running on smooth roads my graphs have lots of big spikes and troughs with 0 smoothing. If you look at my datalog above you can see how fast the data is being aquired, and consequently the RPM line is not smooth looking. Im thinking this is the problem.

With smoothing at 3 I get graphs like these, which dont look right, and the numbers are significantly higher than they should be, even when underestimating curb weight.


For these next runs I went through the CSV file and thinned the data evenly. Basically just removing 2/3 of the rows. It looked a bit better at 0 smoothing, and pretty nice with smoothing at 3, but I dont feel good about this from a data perspective.
I need to fix it at the source...

Since I put this engine together the mechanical timing has been wrong. Part of putting the VTEC D16 head on a D15 bottom end is that the timing is off roughly half a tooth. I was just barely able to get the base ignition timing set, but the mechanical timing couldnt be fixed without a different cam gear. Yesterday I aquired said cam gear and got the timing right for the first time. After setting the ignition timing this is what I got in virtual dyno based on 2nd gear pulls with the data "thinning" method mentioned above.



Green line is tonight, with the mechanical timing fixed, dark red line is 2 days ago with the cam advanced half a tooth. So according to virtual dyno, it has lost a bit of power with this fix. No other adjustments made, and without the wideband being datalogged Im not really sure if the AFRs have changed much or not.

Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-gfr8cz2.png   Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-div2mkb.png  
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 12:15 PM   #22
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,756
Total Cats: 2,493
Default

I'm not sure that it's just the fast polling that's causing the spikes
I've tested slow and fast polling and it still gets smoothed out easily on smoothing 3
Perhaps your car is just making really peaky and jumpy torque
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 01:01 PM   #23
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

Would you happen to have any screenshots of your logs in VD with 0 smoothing?
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 01:04 PM   #24
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,756
Total Cats: 2,493
Default

Oh zero is always super hacksaw looking. on any car. I'm talking about 1 at least.

here's 2


here's 1
Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-bobkate8585fdaytimerun.jpg  
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 01:05 PM   #25
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,756
Total Cats: 2,493
Default

and another 1
on a miata
Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-vladms3pumpgas.jpg  
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 02:45 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 1,046
Total Cats: 42
Default

Oh, to live somewhere that old civic don't have rust!

Once I am done building (and de-rusting...) my Miata I want to do a late 90s 3 door Civic build for a daily.
x_25 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 06:44 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 32
Default

If you could find a bonnet in the right colour it would look less ghetto, you have built a pretty nice car otherwise.
timk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 08:57 PM   #28
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

^Ive been trying to find one. The hood/bonnet that is on the car is pretty banged up as well. Not that I could paint match it anyway.

18psi,
Here is the above run, with two thirds of the data thinned, compared to the original data set.
0 smoothing:


1 smoothing:


Looks pretty **** compared to your stuff.
Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-c4tswyd.png   Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-gubtzvu.png  
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 02:59 PM   #29
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

Im wanting to replace my turbo with a journal bearing garrett T28. While Im at it Im thinking of revising my oil drain and feed.

The feed s -4AN with a 1.5mm restrictor. Im thinking of going to -3AN with no restrictor.
The drain is -8AN push-lock. I notice a lot of you guys are running -10AN.

Thoughts?
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 03:51 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 740
Total Cats: 91
Default

If you're not having issues with smoking or turbos blowing up due to lack of oil then I wouldn't touch the feed line.

Can't hurt going to a -10 return but if it's not broke...
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 06:33 PM   #31
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,756
Total Cats: 2,493
Default

..if it aint broke

And the whole sizing thing is mostly trial and error. Even the garrett site just tells you:
"try this...if it smokes...try this"

etc
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 11:24 AM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Harpers Ferry WV
Posts: 1,521
Total Cats: 20
Default

I like the civic I had a 30r b18a a few years back that was a blast. Get a matching hood and it would be really nice. I also have a ball bearing gt28r forsale that would go great with this build pm if interested.keep up the good work
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 12:57 PM   #33
Goin Innnnn!!!
iTrader: (7)
 
Chooofoojoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Denver, Co.
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post



That Drain looks kinked. Maybe it's the angle of the pic, but I'd look at that for smoke issue.

Also, Check out the Vibrant Oil restrictor. It has a default bore size of .060" and two inserts for 0.045" and 0.03". Easy to change the orifice size if you're still experiencing smoking, just change out the Jet size. Fits with your existing -4AN feed. Linky

Last edited by Chooofoojoo; 10-22-2015 at 02:05 PM.
Chooofoojoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 01:55 PM   #34
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,929
Total Cats: 1,438
Default

Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-80-milwaukee_sawzall_2620_22_045905819e7afd7c371158ea4f6b3c5c6e3ab1a1.jpg  
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 03:25 PM   #35
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

^lmao

The color looks pretty close, no? Maybe when I go to repaint this thing Ill go with "splash green". Then Ill just have to paint my charge pipes purple...

So some work has been done. In particular I upgraded the turbo. Retiring the old BEGi turdblow for good.
I got a "T28" from a Nissan Pulsar GTiR, seen here compared to the BEGi T25/T28 hybrid:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chooofoojoo View Post
That Drain looks kinked. Maybe it's the angle of the pic, but I'd look at that for smoke issue.

Also, Check out the Vibrant Oil restrictor. It has a default bore size of .060" and two inserts for 0.045" and 0.03". Easy to change the orifice size if you're still experiencing smoking, just change out the Jet size. Fits with your existing -4AN feed. Linky
As mentioned above, the drain line was looking a little dodgey.
I tried to "fix" it by remaking it, and added some zip ties for cross sectional support.

It seemed to smooth it out and prevent it from forming that kink, but after a few guys on another form kept insisting I try it with two 45 degree fittings, I decided to give that a shot.
It was quite hard to install because of how close together the ends of the fittings ended up being to each other, but it looks like it should be more effective.





I ended up using a -4AN banjo with a restrictor on the new turbo.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinugawa-Ban...BV3O5R&vxp=mtr

I also plumbed up the water lines and the electronic boost control solenoid.

Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-fhnqnd4.jpg   Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-ngeirny.jpg   Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-cmtlxich.jpg   Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-1fvcqcjh.jpg  

Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 11-05-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 02:03 AM   #36
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,756
Total Cats: 2,493
Default

Much improvement. you'll like the real garrett, and looks like the drain is proper now.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2015, 11:38 PM   #37
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

I got my electronic boost control working!

Attached Thumbnails
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap-aijaurf.jpg  
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 12:33 AM   #38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand Christchurch
Posts: 207
Total Cats: -5
Default

Wow good effort! That's a nice hole you've got there. Hopefully in for bigger and better things
jimmyneutron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 09:28 AM   #39
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,678
Total Cats: 212
Default

This is a notoriously weak bottom end. I was hoping I could push it a little bit but it let go while working out the boost control duty cycle. A couple quick spools to around 10 psi and it let loose on a freeway exit. Luckily it was close to home so I was able to tow it.

Now Im wrestling with the question of what to replace this engine with.
I could get another stock D series, one with a stronger bottom end. Or, I could get back to work on the built engine (I need a crank and one rod). Or, I could swap for a bigger and better engine.

The last option would most likely be a B20 from a Honda CRV.
The other day I was tuning a B20 swapped civic running 12 psi on a T3 turbo and it was a lot of fun to drive. It really put you back in your seat.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 09:57 AM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,819
Total Cats: 269
Default

Doesn't the CRV motor have mad torques?
Girz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LucaCarMods's Boosted Dutch Miata Build! LucaCarMods Build Threads 11 02-14-2016 06:13 AM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 07:18 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 09:39 AM
ISO 1.6 turbo cast iron manifold cale saurage DIY Turbo Discussion 16 10-01-2015 11:25 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.