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-   -   Rapid spool turbo with on-board compressed air in exhaust (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/rapid-spool-turbo-board-compressed-air-exhaust-98666/)

208fabrication 04-30-2024 02:20 PM

Thanks. I will look into that. I went on a killing spree the other weekend and broke 3 axles in one day, all in the area you talked about. I talked to a local company https://dutchmanaxles.com/ about making some axle center sections out of 300M material and having consistent diameter throughout. They should be done early next week and cost ~$650 for a pair.

Newaza 04-30-2024 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by 208fabrication (Post 1649810)
Thanks. I will look into that. I went on a killing spree the other weekend and broke 3 axles in one day, all in the area you talked about. I talked to a local company https://dutchmanaxles.com/ about making some axle center sections out of 300M material and having consistent diameter throughout. They should be done early next week and cost ~$650 for a pair.

Dang dude!! 3 axles in a day? that's hardcore LOL... You must have been launching with all the beans! Pos cat for being a stone cold axle killer!! But being a stick shift is much harder on those parts than an auto.
Hope those axle centers work out. The only issue I would think would be the 26 spline outboard part that goes into the hub. Although I havent broken that part of the axle, I think Pat did before. That is an advantage of doing the rx7 or 929 axles since they are larger 28 spline. Problem is the extra cost of getting broached hubs or using rx7 hubs and turning down for miata spindles. Those 929 axles are gnarly, the problem with them is you have to getting custom adapters made.

Newaza 04-30-2024 05:15 PM

Also just to update.

I made it out to my test spot to measure 40-80 with the dragy and the exhintake cam and preturbo vanes.
Unfortunately it is a tad slower, Well its slower to spool that is. Once fully in boost it seems to be similar to before.

I'm not sure if it is the cam swap or vanes since I didn't test individually. Since the vanes are the easiest to remove I'll retest without and hopefully get response and transient acceleration back. When I do 40-80 testing with the dragy I dont use the spool shot system, I just let it build boost naturally.

If still more laggy without the vanes I'll try testing with cam both advanced and retarded a few degrees before I swap back to original cam.

Newaza 05-03-2024 11:46 AM

Welp fellers it wasnt the vanes... I just retested without the vanes. Gotta be the exhintake cam swap deal. Im going to make an offset bushing for the dowel to allow me to advance or retard the cam a few degrees.. I strongly think it will need to be advanced slightly.. If doing that helps to at least match stock cam acceleration (hope to better that though) I will retest with vanes.

Newaza 05-05-2024 09:25 AM

So I made an offset bushing out of a scrap piece of brass stock on the lathe. The bushing allowed me to move the cam dowel of the exhintake cam about .025 of an inch which correlates to roughly 5 degrees of cam rotation. I installed to advance the cam over the original position I had the exhintake cam dowel located. Doing this got the transition boost response to be a match for the stock cam, but lost power up top according to dragy data. the best location would likely be to advance a degree or two over the original position I had the exhintake cam located. However I dont think it will be as good for overall acceleration as the stock cam on my particular combination in any cam position and I didnt want to waste any more time making more offset bushings to try cam in different positions, so I put stock cam back in. Maybe on other combinations the exhintake swap deal will offer measureable acceleration gains, but for my particular combination that proved to not be the case.

I will be re-installing the preturbo vanes and testing this week to see if that will offer any measurable gains.

Newaza 05-16-2024 05:47 PM

Update!!

Well guys I did a thing LOL.... I cobbled a quick test to see results of shooting air into intake rather than exhaust manifold. The initial results are pretty interesting.

I have to give Pat credit for pushing me to test this. We have had various conversations about the spool shot system and he has been a big proponent of trying the intake side. To be honest I wasnt convinced it would work very well on the intake side but Pat is a really sharp dude and he felt strongly it would work. So being that I have everything already in place I figured what the heck. I just needed to put a fitting in a spare piece of intake pipe I had and route the air hose to it.

Below is what I quickly and crudely cobbled together just for a one time test.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b2664714c8.jpg


I was initially very concerned with shooting high pressure air into the intake. My thoughts were that the manifold pressures may spike very high before the wastegate could balance pressures to what I would normally expect. There is an increase in intake pressure over what I had it set for, but nothing to the degree I was concerned about. really just 4 pounds or so. That was with ~110 psi starting tank pressures shooting into 1/4" npt nipple threaded into intake pipe and aimed at throttle.

When I took out for initial testing I pulled 6 degrees of timing at anything in boost and set boost cut at 356kpa, just in case!!!

The first test round looks promising. It does not work quite as well as shooting into exhaust manifold in so far as boost rise time. Also shooting into intake seems to require some degree of positive manifold pressure for it to work well, doesn't take a lot, maybe 6ish or so psi, but it does seem to want some positive pressure and air flow prior to firing solenoid. Whereas firing into exhaust you can do at 0 boost and still get good results, but even firing into exhaust works better with some level of boost and turbine speed prior to firing solenoid. The more initial turbine speed the better the results.

The best comparison of data I could quickly find of boost rise times exemplifying the difference of shooting into exhaust vs best result of shooting into intake from today's testing follows::

Best test today was firing solenoid into intake manifold at 4662 rpm and beginning boost of 6.4 psi it took 1.067 seconds to reach 30 psi.

In the last tack outing of which I captured the dragy video of car running a 6.52 on timeslip at track (dragy showed 6.54) I logged the following boost rise data.
Launching at 3643 rpm at 6.4 psi it took 1.001 seconds to reach 30.6 psi. If I left at 4660 rpm and 6.4 psi it would have been roughly 1 to 2 tenths quicker to reach 30.6 psi, So figure 8 to 9 tenths of a second firing into exhaust if comparing apples to apples with today's test. So initial testing indicates firing into exhaust does yield better results than firing into intake in so far as spool time goes.

But not so fast cowboy you say??? What happens if we fire both into the intake and exhaust at the same time?? Could that be super gnarly?? Well we are about to find out LOL.... Although I took off the contraption I cobbled together earlier and reconfigured car back to firing into exhaust as it was before, I went ahead and ordered another solenoid to redo the intake side in a better fashion to function independently and/or in conjunction with exhaust side, So I will be able to fire both at same time or either one independent of the other. My hope is to get full boost in say maybe 60 to 70 percent of the time it takes now. If that pans out my 60' time should immediately drop by maybe as much as a tenth. That alone should get me into the high 6.30s.

One thing I didnt test today and something Pat was strongly suggesting is firing into intake at top end of track to pick up top end. The thought is since some of the intake air is supplied by the tanks is that air will be cold. The turbo will be working less and in a better part of the map so that will not add quite as much heat, so in theory it may allow for slightly more power due to cooler intake air and turbo doing less work.

I have an additional take though. If firing these together does spool as madly as I'm hoping I may up my turbo size or at least go up to the next a/r exhaust housing, which should add to the power pie as well.. Stay tuned fellers.




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