Alabama immigrant law and lack of workers
jew see this?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...5898479ce9be40 I love the interviews of the farmer who hired some Amuricans and reported that of the few people he managed to actually get to work, a few worked for thirty minutes before leaving and bitching about their back pain. Here's my glib take:
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So you ARE opposed to minimum wage. I knew I'd get through to you eventually.
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I haven't formed all of my opinions about that situation--including with regards to giving the minimum wage shaft to illegals. They are already here illegally without many of the rights a normal citizen would have. They can't vote for higher wages for themselves for sure.
But this story isn't about minimum wage. It's about how Alabama is going to pioneer some sort of wacky and creative way to get the work formerly done by illegal immigrants (at any price) done by locals who don't want to do that kind of work. "He says the work is hard, and when local people ask him about a job, they want to drive tractors, not labor in the fields." http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141638...n-nears-in-ala |
When the unemployment or welfare benefits are less attractive than work, America will do the work. Is it fair to the "undocumented worker" to not pay a competitive wage? To my keen eye it looks like we have exploitation of the "undocumented immigrant" through artificially low wages. I'd love to hear Nancy Pelosi's opinion on this since her grapes are harvested by illegals in Sonoma, Dry Creek, and Healdzberg. If she paid a reasonable wage, her vineyards might not be so profitable.
The illegal alien doesn't have a vote because he's here illegally. If he went through the citizenship process, he can call his political representation and voice his opinion. If the strawberry or grape doubles in price, so be it, we put an American to work and took that same American off the tax payer's back. Show me the wine made by American citizens, and I'll buy that over the exploitative, illegal immigrant deprocating vino. |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787726)
It's about how Alabama is going to pioneer some sort of wacky and creative way to get the work formerly done by illegal immigrants (at any price) done by locals who don't want to do that kind of work.
"He says the work is hard, and when local people ask him about a job, they want to drive tractors, not labor in the fields." http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141638...n-nears-in-ala No one wants to pick fruit in a field, everyone wants to work in an air conditioned tractor. To those people, I suggest they do something so they can acquire an air conditioned tractor and work for themselves. Until they can do that, they'll probably have to do something they don't want to...unless the Federal government keeps bankrolling them so they don't have to work. I'd like to own a cocktail bar, yet I still work a job that doesn't pay enough to obtain the necessary investment capital to start that bar. Call me crazy. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787753)
When the unemployment or welfare benefits are less attractive than work, America will do the work.
Working in a field, cleaning up a highway or park, data entry, etc. After all, if the unemployed are going to be on the government payroll, why not put them to work? It would give a whole new meaning to the "job placement" program. :) As a possible side benefit, it may allow for some job transition training - teaching basic computer skills, adapting an out of work roofer to an employed asphalt paver, etc. Of course, you would have to figure out some way to disallow or prevent those people from joining public sector unions. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 787765)
What if unemployment benefits were reshaped to pay some sort of hourly wage? That is, you didn't get a government paycheck unless you were doing something at least part time. I say at least part time because you would want to give some sort of flexibility for job searches.
Working in a field, cleaning up a highway or park, data entry, etc. After all, if the unemployed are going to be on the government payroll, why not put them to work? It would give a whole new meaning to the "job placement" program. :) As a possible side benefit, it may allow for some job transition training - teaching basic computer skills, adapting an out of work roofer to an employed asphalt paver, etc. Of course, you would have to figure out some way to disallow or prevent those people from joining public sector unions. |
Wow.
Extraterrestrials I mean foreign nationals should be allowed to LEGALLY work here for $3.50 an hour. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787753)
If the strawberry or grape doubles in price, so be it, we put an American to work and took that same American off the tax payer's back. Show me the wine made by American citizens, and I'll buy that over the exploitative, illegal immigrant deprocating vino.
money goes to the non-immigrating-immigrants once again! |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787784)
if the strawberry doulbes in price, we'll just import them like we do all our other fruit.
money goes to the non-immigrating-immigrants once again! and you're money continues going to people who don't work because they don't have to. |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787726)
But this story isn't about minimum wage.
So the farmer (as you pointied out): 1. Raises prices to cover the forced cost of labor. 2. Use the force of government (e.g., income taxes) to take money from those who have earned it in order to give it to those who haven't - BECAUSE of government policies. 3. Break the law - Hire workers through a mutal agreement, below what the law says is a legal rate. 4. Frees dollars used to over pay workers, to correctly pay others. I see an obvious blame... |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787726)
I haven't formed all of my opinions about that situation--including with regards to giving the minimum wage shaft to illegals.
They are already here illegally without many of the rights a normal citizen would have. They can't vote for higher wages for themselves for sure. If you complain "these wages aren't enough to live on", well, think about this - the free market tends to make everything more affordable - even those at the bottom of the skill / wage ladder. The "poor" in this country live better than the middle class in poor countries. Because of the free market. Wealth comes from productivity, and the free market tends to imrprove productivity. |
a timely aside: the farm bill is being fastracked this month.
I wonder how much of the corn/soy/whatever subsidy will remain intact while mr strawberry can't farm his berries. So which is better? no minimum wage exploitation of farm workers at $2/hour or strawberries becoming an expensive food? either way, that farmer is fucked because he will go broke before he can hire enough reasonably priced labor or make a profit on his strawberries. At least grapes used for wine have a chance because the end product price can be jacked up and will still appeal to the elitist wine snobs. nobody will miss two buck chuck and nobody will drink ten buck chuck. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787770)
Nice community plan, Karl. We already have student loan programs to teach people whatever they want, all it takes is a job to pay for that loan. Let the people motivate themselves.
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 787856)
Is your position that unemployment insurance should be eliminated entirely?
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Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787844)
So which is better? no minimum wage exploitation of farm workers at $2/hour or strawberries becoming an expensive food?
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like I said earlier, the farmers are going to have to find creative ways to figure out how to not go broke paying field worker wages and still get field worker work done.
for example, some states have lower minimum wages for minors. or they could hire them as waiters and tip them very little. |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 787844)
no minimum wage exploitation of farm workers at $2/hour or strawberries becoming an expensive food?
Also, I find $2/hr hard to believe. Pls. post link providing evidence. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787859)
I haven't owned a car that cost more than a paycheck since 2001, I have enough cash in the bank to suffice for several months of rent and bills, no children, and I have one outstanding debt...need I say more?
Besides you, describe what you think would happen to:
I am not saying your position is wrong, I am just curious if you have thought through the operational aspects or if it is more of a theoretical/ideological position. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 787859)
I have enough cash in the bank to suffice for several months of rent and bills, no children, and I have one outstanding debt...need I say more?
I have the cash to pay my debt off and be completely debt free, but that will cut into my pillow that I've built up. Alternatively I pay the bank note every month and keep my pillow. Which in my case works, cause I'm at the point now that most of the payment goes to the principle. On topic Not sure how many of you have worked hand and hand with illegals, but I have, and at a couple different jobs now. All the jobs have been manual labor related and none of them paid much either. You simply CANNOT find American laborers and if you do, they want to join the "union" and make $20hr. I know a lot of guys that work for private companies as well as a handful that are unionized. The difference in work ethics between the 2 are night and day. Back on topic, illegal immigrants are here for certain reasons. Some of them work to feed and take care of their family back home (wherever home is), for years and years if need be. Some of them come here, bank everything, go back home and live like a king. Many will do this for just under a year and come right back (coyote style), some build a house or start a business and never come back. Lastly there are the ones that come for the "American dream". Many of these guys work their way up the ladder speaking not a lick of english and eventually start running their own business here. Illegally. I am torn between my feelings on the issue cause although they do take jobs from American guys by undercutting prices, they are people too. Most of the guys I've worked with are great guys and would kill themselves just to get the job done. While most Americans just want whats easiest or most profitable. These guys just get jobs in numbers and work 100 hours a week if they need to. Although, as time goes on and they become "Americanized", they learn about greed as well. I believe that the guys that come here to live and work should be allowed to, so long as they stay out of trouble and aren't a detriment to society. I mean for fucks sake we keep our own garbage here on welfare, ebt cards, unemployment, etc, and they don't do a thing to deserve it (entitled). Why not trade every piece of shit American for a willing immigrant to take their place? Give them 1 year probation and if they prove to be a fitting member of society, they get papers. |
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