Government Shutdown
 

I needed somewhere to vent, this is it.

This partial government shutdown is complete and total bullshit. They are cherry picking services to close down in order to cause the most uprising and affect to the people.

Federal Prison workers? Nope you don't get paid, but have to keep reporting to work (yes, I know they will get back pay, but how long will that take)
Congress? Yep, you all were smart enough to pin it in the constitution that even if the you cause the Gov. shut down your greedy pockets still get lined.
Private home on federal property? Sorry, you're locked out and can't go home. Except the white house, we will keep that one open for its residents.
Open body of water? Sorry, you can't use that bay, due to government shutdown.
Amber alert website? Nah, its down, sorry not funded.
First Ladies personal pet project? Yep, its going fine.

yes.


I'm just pissed cause I'm not getting a paid vacation. Like seriously pissed.

I'm curious about this, specifically since one of the things which I found rather interesting about my visit to the Grand Canyon a while back was that quite a lot of people actually lived there, within the boundaries of what is considered to be the Grand Canyon National Park.

Under what circumstances would the closure of a federal property cause citizens whose private home is located on said grounds to be unable to gain entry to their domicile?

Thread page prediction: over 9,000

Lake Mead property owners forced out until shutdown ends - www.ktnv.com

People who had privately owned homes that are located on federal property were forced out and barred from returning until the funding returns.

Lake Mead property owners forced out until shutdown ends - www.ktnv.com

I remember reading something about some restarunt in Philly that's attached to some historic federally building/complex and it's not allowed to operate during the shutdown.

The shutting down of publically accessible spaces is just a way (pretty much the only) for the public to actually feel an impact.

There is really no better way to create global butthurt than make a couple civilians suffer because of big bad gubment and then let the media do what it does best.

it's such a crock.

Rushmore blockage stirs anger in S.D. | Argus Leader | argusleader.com







http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-cont...t-rushmore.jpg

Government shuts down the ocean.
http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/10/06...-closure-ocean

Boy Boards Plane To Vegas At MSP Without Ticket « CBS Minnesota

and this would solve what? Or is this solution just part of your criminal lineage that you just can't seem to shake?




http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpre...pg?w=500&h=347

I went down south on vacation over the weekend.

Hit all the usual tourist spots. All were closed. Complete roads were closed. Little pulloff and overlooks had cones and big blocks in place so you couldn't park and look at the hills. They had officers parked making sure people didn't go past them. The appalachian trail had a sign that said "closed" at every spot we went to hike on it. No one was around to stop us... Fontana dam was closed, but there was no gate, or someone pushed it aside. It was a real buzzkill for my vacation. I heard people were still hiking up to clingmans dome though. Also, the blueridge parkway was open... Well the area i got on was.

Privatize all of the things!

I sort of understood when they closed some of the national parks and monuments, as they wouldn't have people around to monitor them or clean them, or provide emergency services or something, but closing anything that does not require any of that, or providing people to guard it who could just as easily open it is just a mockery of... something.

If the parks are closed because of government shut down, then who will enforce the closure of the parks? Fuck your damn cones!

Our representitives on both sides have gerrymandered themselves to the point they no longer fear losing re-election no matter what they do (like, say, holding the government hostage to stop the implementation of a law they don't like).

When they have no fear of losing their jobs, they resort to aggressive tactics. Guns won't help anything.

I'd want to say 50% or more of the locations blocked off where i was, had a guard. Or someone in a vehicle to enforce.

I go running on a section of the Appalachian trail by my house. There was a sign that said "Because of the federal government shutdown this national park service area is closed" I'm not really sure how they can shut down something that is completely maintained by volunteers. In fact there were some people doing maintenance when I was there, and I passed a large group of hikers too...Just seems like a waste to try and shut down something that they never cared about to begin with...

Like most of the government?

Huh.

Well, using federal employees to block access to private homes and businesses on public land does seem to be something resembling a misuse of power, especially when the reason for same is that the government is in a financial hold and can't afford to pay the employees who are doing the blocking of access.

Which makes me wonder: is said blocking of access actually a legitimate action of the government, or is it something more akin to picketing by unionized private-sector workers during a strike?

what part of protect man's rights did you not understand?

This seems like it should be a movie or something. It's so dumb.

They actually spent more money to close both the WWII memorial (buying barricades) and the Marine memorial than if they had left things alone.

Spoiled little brats, not getting their way. Pass a farking budget you asshats, then you can whine about the Rebubs being jerks. You know, do your damn job before pointing fingers at the other side.

My guess is it's both sides playing politics. The Repubs are shutting down the government, and the Dems want to make that shutdown as publicly noticeable as possible.

Also I'm guessing there are liability reasons to keep parks and such shut down (can't speak for mountainside viewing places). Paying one person to stand out front and stop people from going in is cheaper than paying multiple to be on hand in case something happens.

House republicans passed numerous bills:

Senate democrats failed them. So who closed down the government?

I'm not arguing politics, that's what got us in to this fucking mess in the first place Brain.

no, what got us in this mess was delaying the implementation of a bad law after a new congress came into power that had a different vision than o's soviet america.

I guess I don't understand the relevance of the second question to the first.
See? The two don't really mesh well. If Q2 had been something like "Well, do the constitution or the Federal statues give the federal government the power to restrict access to federally-owned lands?" then I could see how it would jive, and I'd be able to follow the conversation. As it stands, however, I'm lost. :dunno:

In Soviet America, Government rules YOU!!!

Spending Problem? What spending problem?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381174602

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381174602

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381174602

That's a pretty badass looking vehicle.


So, I guess the underlying questions are:

1: Whether it is reasonable for the federal government to control access to land which is owned by the federal government, and

2: Whether it is reasonable for a private citizen to expect unrestricted access to chattel which is owned by them but which is situated on land which is owned by the federal government and to which they have no easement.



Neither is an easy question.

For #1, we have to ask ourself what the federal government is in the first place. Is it an actual entity, with enjoys rights and protections in the same or similar manner to those afforded a corporation? Or is it merely a proxy for "we the people"?


#2 is a little more straightforward, and is probably just a matter of contract law. Clearly one cannot expect the same freedoms of access to a timeshare property as to a condominium, nor to a condominium as to an estate in fee simple. I'm not even sure what sort of title or deed is attached to a private residence erected upon a public park, and I'm having a dickens of a time finding any information here.

I didn't know people lived on federally owned land. But I assume there have to be park rangers there if you want to have people there at the same time. A museum wouldn't be open with no security or curators staffing it, why should a national park?

Step 1. Hold general elections. One side will win with a small majority.
Step 2. Small majority tries to pass laws that the minority doesn't like.
Step 3. Minority holds US financial system hostage until it get's what it wants.
Step 4. Make bad system oscillate into positive moron feedback until everything is ruined.

Is this the general plan? I stand to loose much more money from one side hijacking the financial system than I do from the law that the other side wants to pass. Childish...

The Dems did it to W too, and it was bullshit then (threatening funding from the Iraq war).

Pointing out one side doing it to the other just makes step 4 go faster.

FTFY :popcorn:

You left out the critical "railroad laws through, violating established legal procedures" and "fail to even submit a budget as they are supposed to"

This is just payback for illegal trampling of the system.

Some European perspective.

Can't say that it's particularly surprising or insightful. Basically what you'd expect from someone accustomed to Western European social democracy.

Did anyone ask Schmitz to comment on the current administration's inability to pass a budget?

A correction to my above. I did some research, and apparently a dwelling is never considered to be chattel regardless of the ownership of the estate on which it is situated. (The situation is not entirely clear for mobile homes.) Dwellings are always considered to be Estates in Real Property, though I'm having a dickens of a time figuring out how to classify a leasehold interest in publicly-owned land. (Is it a defeasible estate? Fuck if I know.)

I really hope that one of these cases goes to trial AND winds up in appeals court, not because I give a shit about the so-called rights of the leaseholder, but because I really want to read a judicial opinion on this matter.




I've oft held a similar opinion of the legislative process in the US, that it is inherently hamstrung by the electoral process itself. There would be some grounds for proposing that members of both the House and the Senate be elected for a single term of a long duration (6 years? 8? 10?) and be ineligible for re-election to two consecutive terms.

I do take issue with Herr Wilder's characterization of the Republicans being the sole cause of gridlock within the congress. I would posit that this distinction is passed back and forth frequently, occurring especially often when the house and senate find themselves controlled by opposing majority parties, or when a congressional majority opposes the political affiliation of the president.


You can read the full article here: German Press Review on US Government Shutdown - SPIEGEL ONLINE

People keep talking about a "budget", lol. We haven't seen a budget in like 6 years, we now function on CRs.

So, we're going into week #2, probably waiting on a debt ceiling battle, and there is no end in sight. I'm a federal employee and I'm "essential" which means I'm still working, I also recently paid out a total of $3700 in travel expenses out of pocket with another $1500 coming due. This is typical since I receive compensation on reimbursement, but not this much. I'm not getting a paycheck this week, I can make rent this month but not the rest of the bills. Since I'm not furloughed I am ineligible for unemployment, not like that will cover the bills.

WTF should I do? I'm guessing it's time to pick-up a job and try to make rent. This should be entertaining.

Haven't caught up on this thread but something i just noticed.

While i was traveling down the blue ridge parkway and noticing all the "overlooks" coned off. I drove by the Pisgah Inn. At the time i didn't know what it was as i was unfamiliar to the area. Like all the other "sight seeing" and "tourist" spots it was barricaded off and also had 2 patrol cars sitting by it. Only a few hours ago did i find out that's a privately owned business. And now i'm reading all these stories of the government shutting down and closing off access to private land and business.... Hmmmm, seems really fishy. I wish i would have taken more pictures of the horseshit i saw.

Manage your money more responsibly, and plan ahead for contingencies.

If you can't comfortably survive for 6-12 months with no income whatsoever, you are doing something wrong.



Going back to my earlier post, this is exactly why I'm starting to wonder about legitimate acts of government vs. something more akin to a labor union strike / picket.

You edited out the part about owed travel expenses, nearly $4000. Also, our government shut-down on a pay-day, meaning I'm also one check behind already so that adds to it. If these expenses were paid by finance, I wouldn't be in a pinch. lol

It's the same in the private sector. When I was a corporate employee, I put all travel expenses on a company-issued Amex card in my name, and was personally responsible for any interest charges accrued as a result of late repayment. And as a 1099 contractor, all travel expenses were paid for on my own personal Visa card and then reimbursed via expense reporting.

Quite frequently in either case, reimbursement lagged behind credit card billing by a sufficient amount that I elected to float the balance off of my personal checking account, rather than incur interest fees and face the hassle of attempting to get those covered by the company / customer.



TL;DR: Quit whining and grow a pair. (You can start by building a more manly bicycle. Less carbon/kevlar, more lithium and iron.)





Again, if you can't comfortably deal with being 20-30 paychecks behind with no impact whatsoever, you are failing at life.

Don't you have a government travel card? I've got one and I'm not even the target market - I've had to use it once - ever - when my return flight was delayed by 2 feet of snow and I had to put up for the night in Detroit.

Seems to me that a government employee that could rack up 4k in travel expenses would be one of the first to get a government travel card.

In other news, I've saved 5 months of income in a contingency account over a 10 month period (read: easy to access) after a stint of unemployment nearly wiped it clean. It's hard as hell to not buy go-fast bits when you've got cash in the bank.

tl;dr. Save 50% of all you earn :)

I do, but I'm responsible for payment on those expenses, regardless of the lag-time in finance. I'm still waiting on funds from travel back in June because these people are so fucking slow with payment. One guy in our office who travels all the time is $12k out of pocket.

I usually keep $10k in savings, but I decided to feverishly attack student loans and end them next year.

Anyway, my money is on the Republicans trying to use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip to end Obamacare.

Again, welcome to real life.

I just did a quick tally on my accounts receivable, and I still have outstanding invoices totaling slightly over $30,000 dating as far back as 08 June.

Some folks punch a timeclock from 9 to 5 and live, boring, pedestrian lives. Those of us who do not learn to deal with the subtle irregularities.




Add another zero to the end, and then triple it, and you'll be on the right track via-a-vis not living hand-to-mouth for someone our age.

Nah. Boehner isn't that stupid. He's sick and tired of a small group of hyper-right-wing loudmouths dictating the policy direction of his party, so he's letting them drown themselves one day at a time with the shutdown, setting the stage for a "win" with his party core. When it comes time for the debt ceiling debate, Obama will give up something small, Boehner will caucus most of his party with the minority Democrats to pass a "clean" bill save for one small concession to make himself look good, and throw the tea party under the bus in the process. He just has to wait long enough to allow the shutdown to not only poison the idiots who are holding up the clean bill vote, but poison the ideology behind it.

I just hope Boehner thought of all that before I did. :party:

Hmmm... if I saved for 10 years, didn't pay taxes, and ate nothing but ramen noodles, I still couldn't accomplish this. :party:

Joe lives in NY now, shit's expensive.