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Old 04-15-2011, 09:31 PM   #1
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:07 PM   #2
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"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong."

-Thomas Paine-
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:38 PM   #3
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You are both taking your lives in your hands posting this while living north of I-80....
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:34 AM   #4
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I take my life in my hands every time I walk out my door because live North of I-80. Funny you should mention this, the police were in my complex just last night.

Not to mention the stabbing next to my building, the home invasion in my building, the murder across the street ,the murder/suicide around the corner and the 5 innocent women killed in cold blood at Lane Bryant 5 minutes from here. All in the last 10 years. I hate Cook County.

At least I know aggressors wont come though my front door...well, not very far through it anyway.

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Old 04-16-2011, 12:51 AM   #5
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What guns do you think should be legal for the average citizen to own? Full auto? Assault rifles (ex.AK-47, M16), Machine pistols (ex. Uzi, tech 9, mac 10), light machine guns (M249 SAW, RPK), large caliber "sniper rifles" (ex. Barrett M82)??????
What do you think about ammunition like the Black Talon rounds, built to defeat bullet proof vests?
Do you actually believe in the "New World Order", or did it just happen to be in the video you sighted?

Gun control = hitting what you aim at.
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:57 AM   #6
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Good question. I personally don't think the average citizen would ever have a need for something of that nature. Unless 1 person is attacked by many people, there would be no use for it. Those were designed for mass on mass use, not personal protection.

Nor could I envision a scenario where the public would need to rise up in defense of the military. At least not the military of this country. Our military maintains close ties to family and friends and are still allowed independent thought. They swear to do their duty, yes but do not pledge their mind and soul to our Goverment. I would think, at least I hope a crisis of conscious ensues or they become disgruntled to the point where they remain neutral or reverse direction of their aggression to the true oppressors. If it ever reaches this point we have failed as patriots already.

Now to play Devil's advocate. What if they were legal? This would put us on par with some of the true criminals. Crimes involving automatic weapons have become more prevalent these days. Someone doing something highly illegal isn't concerned about the legality of the weapon he chooses. They will stack the deck in their favor and get the biggest gun with the most bullets he can find. What if the 1934 machine gun ban was never implemented? What it did was tilt the playing field in favor of the criminal.

Would gangland crime in the '30s and '40s have been as bad? Maybe not. I bet one would think twice before jumping on the running board of a car and making the escape from a bank robbery, randomly spraying rounds everywhere, if there was a chance that John Q. Public would return force in kind. He may not even make that trip to the bank in the first place. He possibly may even consider a career change.

Fact is a small amount of gun crimes are committed by law abiding citizens and the majority are committed by people with illegal guns, the mentally unstable or criminals who shouldn't have had a gun in the first place. Guns don't randomly shoot people on their own. It's the hate or malice behind the trigger that does.

It's a grey area that has no data to support a decision one way or the other because they're not legal. As far as I'm concerned, if I had one, it would never be used. It would sit in my closet collecting dust. I can't imagine having to take someone's life as it is. I hope it never comes to that. It would be hard for me to live with myself.

Good people will strive to be good people because it's their nature. Bad people will tend to be bad people because they have no desire or motivation to do otherwise. Good intentions come easy to some people while evil ones come easy for others. Guns of any type, by themselves are indifferent. It takes a human to make one work and decide how it's used.

That's my 2 cents, anyway.

Last edited by lordrigamus; 04-16-2011 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:14 AM   #7
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^+1

I cant really buy the "we need guns to rise up against tyrannical governments" argument because like lordrigamus said, solders are people too with their own independent thought, and thus can rise up on behalf of civilizations. However, I like guns, there cool (fact). I want assault weapons, but I don't want my neighbors to have em' too. Why? I know my intent, I know I can control myself, but I can't say that of my neighbors necessarily. So, I would like to see the sale of assault weapons much more strictly controlled. Even if a person uses a AK-47 in defense, accidents happen, one of those round could easily go through a window into a neighbors house and kill anyone unlucky enough to be in it's path. Home defense = Shotgun. Conceal and carry defense = simi auto hand gun. Hunting = hunting rifle. That's all ya really need.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:36 AM   #8
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Agreed. I wouldn't mind having one either but I know my own intents. It would be cool to have and fun to shoot. I can't, however speak to the intent of others, especially around here. As you said, even my own neighbors. It's safe to say there are people I know who I would rather not have guns and I am glad they don't.

A lot of people lack control, don't consider the consequences to them or others or are just to stupid to have them. Emotion easily overrules reason and can lead to dire situations if you throw a weapon in the mix. Sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution. There's no mulligans when it comes to firearms. Once the round leaves the chamber it's not coming back. It knows nothing else but to violently destroy what it hits.

I would be concerned if there was an attempt at a complete and utter gun ban. That would worry me. I can see the logic in restriction of military style, fully automatic weapons designed to kill people en masse though. This will prevent one psychopath from walking into a mall and killing 20 or 30 people at a time before the cops show up. Of course so would 1 well placed round from my .45 if I was allowed to carry. I guess we're back in that grey area again.

Besides, if it ever came to the "worst case scenario" the French will come to our aid.

Last edited by lordrigamus; 04-16-2011 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
What guns do you think should be legal for the average citizen to own? Full auto? Assault rifles (ex.AK-47, M16), Machine pistols (ex. Uzi, tech 9, mac 10), light machine guns (M249 SAW, RPK), large caliber "sniper rifles" (ex. Barrett M82)??????
What do you think about ammunition like the Black Talon rounds, built to defeat bullet proof vests?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon

Black talons were not and have never been armor piercing. They are designed to expand on impact which has two benefits. One being that they cause more trauma and therefore have more of a chance of ending the fight with fewer rounds fired. Also unlike full metal jacket rounds, they have less chance of passing through the target and hitting bystanders.

Almost all rifle rounds can pierce a police officers vest. Any vest capable of defeating modern rifle ammunition would be unwieldy to wear.
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:59 PM   #10
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To me full auto isn't nearly as fun or interesting now as it was when uncle sam was paying to keep it spitting.
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:40 PM   #11
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Uncle Sam didn't pay for it ...I did. You're welcome! Hope you had a blast...or multiple blasts.
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:27 PM   #12
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I'm going to the range next week with a .357, 1911 and a desert eagle.

Gonna decide which one I want to carry on me



Just kidding. I'm more than likely going to be carrying a 9mm XD.
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
I'm going to the range next week with a .357, 1911 and a desert eagle.

Gonna decide which one I want to carry on me



Just kidding. I'm more than likely going to be carrying a 9mm XD.
I prefer my M&P9pro myself

I'm thinking I'll test out my new Sub 2000 .40S&W.... and a few .22s
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:47 AM   #14
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Full auto is ridiculously hard to use effectivly. I prefer 3 round burst. Honestly I'm not a real fan of assult rifles. I do however support others rights to own them. I like 9mm for my pistol and might pick up a 9mm assult rifle to match anyways. At 150 yards I like a lever 30-30 and out farther I prefer a bolt 30-06. SKS's and similar are **** for accuracy.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:49 AM   #15
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SKS's aren't really that bad. It'll never match a bolt-gun but it'll shoot 4" at 100 yards all day long with surplus ammo.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:51 AM   #16
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I must have had a junker, it was aweful.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:56 AM   #17
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I didn't really like my Yugo but it shot reasonably well. I just got tired of the stripper-clip, non-detachable magazine setup and the finicky gas system (and the Yugo's are really, really long with the grenade launcher).

Built up a Russian AK to my liking and it's much better. And I've got a complete AR lower just for kicks, don't know when I'll finish it.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
^+1

I cant really buy the "we need guns to rise up against tyrannical governments" argument because like lordrigamus said, solders are people too with their own independent thought, and thus can rise up on behalf of civilizations.
I think after the unlawful confiscation of legal weapons from innocent civilians by soldiers in New Orleans, your argument is invalid. Only when the soldier can think for himself, and against his government, and is willing to act against his government, and fellow soldiers, will your argument be valid. Too many soldiers think that civilians shouldn't have weapons at all. A phrase that always sticks in my mind is

When seconds count, help is only minutes away.

Too many stories of people being hurt or killed while on the phone with dispatch, and not enough, come quick. Bang! send the coroner.

BUt I also think that people on welfare should be sterilized.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:03 AM   #19
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I totally think ppl on welfare should be sterilized, hell I think males should be given vasectomies at puberty and then have it reversed when kids are wanted. The abortion rate, prison population (in 18 years), welfare rate, etc etc would all go down. Pure win.
And I never said guns should be banned or anything like that, just assault weapons that people are too stupid/irresponsible/emotional but mainly stupid to own responsibly.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:23 AM   #20
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Banning anything is stupid. Criminals will always have the weapon they want. Your just talking it out of the hand of the guy that will sport shoot it.
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