It's OK to ignore the constitution.
6 Attachment(s)
It's not often that I use Facebook, and it's even less often that I become involved in debates on it.
Still, the discussion thread which follows is of great interest to me. To name a few of the participants: The one called "Joe Perez" is me. "Joshua Eubanks" is a stereotypical 50th percentile American who I knew in High School, and who, at that time, was known by the nickname "Gumby" as he had the ability to place both of his legs behind his head and "walk" on his ass. He is currently unemployed and lives in a tiny town in central Georgia. "Kevin Whitehead" is another friend from High School. He is a marine structural engineer who lives in Tampa, FL, and is married to a girl on whom a I once had a tremendous crush. And now, the thread, in which I have highlighted a few select passages: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1392820297 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1392820297 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1392820297 Is it wrong of me to just be utterly flabbergasted to hear someone say this? |
You get the government you deserve.
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Do you think that arguing with mouth-breathers will benefit them?
Yes, he is wrong and, no, I'm not surprised people believe those things. But then, I'm the guy who believes that anyone who receives direct financial support from the federal government due to impoverishment shall not be extended the right to vote. Much in the same way you don't let school-age dependents have an equal say as the adults in a household as to how the finances are handled. |
I mean,
There are enough of these people that he actually became president Are you really surprised? |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1103795)
I mean,
There are enough of these people that he actually became president Are you really surprised? |
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Judging by the tidiness of his living space, I'd say he's a mature individual.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392825941 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392825941 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392825941 |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1103795)
I mean,
There are enough of these people that he actually became president Are you really surprised? I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances." This is just... incomprehensible to me. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1103809)
I'm not even talking about any one specific president, or even the Office of the President in general.
I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances." This is just... incomprehensible to me. So yeah, because it is already happening, it's cool, we can just keep ignoring it. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1103809)
I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances."
This is just... incomprehensible to me. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1103798)
People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.
We blame DC, we blame Wall Street, We blame 'the government', we blame 'the corporations', we blame a lot of versions of 'they'. Truth is that those are all extensions of the famed 'Main Street' everyone claims to be defending. |
I like when Churchill said:
democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1103817)
Are you not aware of Woodrow Wilson or FDR not just stating the constitution was a hindrance to them but actively subverting or circumventing it? Or Lincoln, for that matter. This is certainly not a novel idea among large groups of the "educated" populace. How much more so among the uneducated?
'Educated' people by and large are a lot like 'uneducated' people, they interpret things to confirm their world view and fit in with their social/political/religious/class group. And many 'educated' people have a pathological need to be as opposed to and different from 'uneducated' people as possible. Anyone who's had a undergrad poly-sci class at a large university can attest to this. So when 'uneducated' people consider the constitution important, the knee-jerk reaction from the 'educated' is the opposite. Its gets couched in a lot of fancy language, but in the end that's pretty much it. 'Education' is more of a social process than an intellectual one until you get to the masters level in this country and it shows. Its like having one clock that's 2 hours slow and other that's stopped. The stopped clock is dead-on right once in awhile, the one that's 2 hours slow is closer to the truth most of the time. Relying on either is a bad idea. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1103826)
I like when Churchill said:
democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1103817)
Are you not aware of Woodrow Wilson or FDR not just stating the constitution was a hindrance to them but actively subverting or circumventing it? Or Lincoln, for that matter. This is certainly not a novel idea among large groups of the "educated" populace.
But I also recognize a distinction between how government operates in the real world, and how we ought to idealize the functioning of government in an aspirational sense. Consider a floor which is dirty. We might look around and say "Well, a lot of other floors are also dirty, so I guess it's fine." But that would be wrong. Or at least it wouldn't improve the situation any. The better man would rise to attention, take up his mop in his hand, and shout "HEY! THESE FLOORS ARE DIRTY AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!" |
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 1103835)
A less great film: |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1103809)
I'm not even talking about any one specific president, or even the Office of the President in general.
I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances." This is just... incomprehensible to me. |
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Originally Posted by pusha
(Post 1103808)
Judging by the tidiness of his living space, I'd say he's a mature individual.
But by the same token, he's an American, and he has the right to vote. And that terrifies me. I still go back to the very opening volley in that thread, where I asked "So, it's OK for the president to ignore the constitution, circumvent the congress and act as a de-facto monarch, so long as he has good intentions?" and he replied "Yes, actually." I just wasn't prepared for that. The idea that a person might have responded to that question in the affirmative just never occurred to me. I mean, imagine for a moment that I'd asked "So, it's OK to round up all of the Jews in the whole country, inter them in forced-labor camps, and exterminate them slowly over a period of several years?" How would you imagine most people would react if a person publicly answered "Yes, actually" to that question. Because that's literally just about the same level of incomprehension that I'm at right now. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1103831)
The better man would rise to attention, take up his mop in his hand, and shout "HEY! THESE FLOORS ARE DIRTY AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
"I will put an end to this, once and for all," he said. His voice was clear and without feeling. That was all he said and started to walk out. He walked down the length of the place, in the white light, not hurrying and not noticing any of us. Nobody moved to stop him. Gerald Starnes cried suddenly after him, "How?" He turned and answered, "I will stop the motor of the world." Then he walked out. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1103790)
You get the government you deserve.
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