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Old 02-19-2014, 10:33 AM   #1
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Default It's OK to ignore the constitution.

It's not often that I use Facebook, and it's even less often that I become involved in debates on it.

Still, the discussion thread which follows is of great interest to me.

To name a few of the participants:

The one called "Joe Perez" is me.

"Joshua Eubanks" is a stereotypical 50th percentile American who I knew in High School, and who, at that time, was known by the nickname "Gumby" as he had the ability to place both of his legs behind his head and "walk" on his ***. He is currently unemployed and lives in a tiny town in central Georgia.

"Kevin Whitehead" is another friend from High School. He is a marine structural engineer who lives in Tampa, FL, and is married to a girl on whom a I once had a tremendous crush.

And now, the thread, in which I have highlighted a few select passages:







Is it wrong of me to just be utterly flabbergasted to hear someone say this?
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It's OK to ignore the constitution.-cons1.gif   It's OK to ignore the constitution.-cons2.gif   It's OK to ignore the constitution.-cons3.gif  
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:40 AM   #2
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You get the government you deserve.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:42 AM   #3
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Do you think that arguing with mouth-breathers will benefit them?

Yes, he is wrong and, no, I'm not surprised people believe those things.

But then, I'm the guy who believes that anyone who receives direct financial support from the federal government due to impoverishment shall not be extended the right to vote. Much in the same way you don't let school-age dependents have an equal say as the adults in a household as to how the finances are handled.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:44 AM   #4
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I mean,

There are enough of these people that he actually became president

Are you really surprised?
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:57 AM   #5
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I mean,

There are enough of these people that he actually became president

Are you really surprised?
People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:05 PM   #6
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Judging by the tidiness of his living space, I'd say he's a mature individual.





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It's OK to ignore the constitution.-1925048_752845178060973_2045213559_n.jpg   It's OK to ignore the constitution.-1604657_752845181394306_1376528682_n.jpg   It's OK to ignore the constitution.-1621894_752845328060958_1743890247_n.jpg  
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I mean,

There are enough of these people that he actually became president

Are you really surprised?
I'm not even talking about any one specific president, or even the Office of the President in general.

I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances."

This is just... incomprehensible to me.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'm not even talking about any one specific president, or even the Office of the President in general.

I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances."

This is just... incomprehensible to me.
The constitution is being ignored and over-ridden and gone against every single day by every single one of them...


So yeah, because it is already happening, it's cool, we can just keep ignoring it.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances."

This is just... incomprehensible to me.
Are you not aware of Woodrow Wilson or FDR not just stating the constitution was a hindrance to them but actively subverting or circumventing it? Or Lincoln, for that matter. This is certainly not a novel idea among large groups of the "educated" populace. How much more so among the uneducated?
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:18 PM   #10
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People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.
That's a pretty accurate paraphrase of one of the best thing Churchill ever said.

We blame DC, we blame Wall Street, We blame 'the government', we blame 'the corporations', we blame a lot of versions of 'they'.

Truth is that those are all extensions of the famed 'Main Street' everyone claims to be defending.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:35 PM   #11
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I like when Churchill said:

democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:37 PM   #12
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Are you not aware of Woodrow Wilson or FDR not just stating the constitution was a hindrance to them but actively subverting or circumventing it? Or Lincoln, for that matter. This is certainly not a novel idea among large groups of the "educated" populace. How much more so among the uneducated?
Actually what's really depressing is that uneducated people will cling to dogma well and thus end up being defenders of the constitution if that's their particular social comfort zone. It's like that moron friend that is loyal to the hilt, but you don't want him sticking up for you in an argument because it'll just weaken your case. Maybe we could call this the 'Biden Effect' or 'Palin Principle'.

'Educated' people by and large are a lot like 'uneducated' people, they interpret things to confirm their world view and fit in with their social/political/religious/class group. And many 'educated' people have a pathological need to be as opposed to and different from 'uneducated' people as possible. Anyone who's had a undergrad poly-sci class at a large university can attest to this.

So when 'uneducated' people consider the constitution important, the knee-jerk reaction from the 'educated' is the opposite. Its gets couched in a lot of fancy language, but in the end that's pretty much it. 'Education' is more of a social process than an intellectual one until you get to the masters level in this country and it shows.

Its like having one clock that's 2 hours slow and other that's stopped. The stopped clock is dead-on right once in awhile, the one that's 2 hours slow is closer to the truth most of the time. Relying on either is a bad idea.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I like when Churchill said:

democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
Personal favorite was his vision for the Earth: Every country has an English channel and anything artificial that tries to fly will burst into flames.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Are you not aware of Woodrow Wilson or FDR not just stating the constitution was a hindrance to them but actively subverting or circumventing it? Or Lincoln, for that matter. This is certainly not a novel idea among large groups of the "educated" populace.
I do.

But I also recognize a distinction between how government operates in the real world, and how we ought to idealize the functioning of government in an aspirational sense.


Consider a floor which is dirty. We might look around and say "Well, a lot of other floors are also dirty, so I guess it's fine."

But that would be wrong. Or at least it wouldn't improve the situation any.

The better man would rise to attention, take up his mop in his hand, and shout "HEY! THESE FLOORS ARE DIRTY AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:53 PM   #15
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:05 PM   #16
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^ A great film.


A less great film:

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Old 02-19-2014, 01:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'm not even talking about any one specific president, or even the Office of the President in general.

I'm just flabbergasted by the notion that a person, an American, would literally come right out and say "Yes, it's ok to ignore the constitution under certain circumstances."

This is just... incomprehensible to me.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:18 PM   #18
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Judging by the tidiness of his living space, I'd say he's a mature individual.
He is certainly not an over-achiever.

But by the same token, he's an American, and he has the right to vote. And that terrifies me.

I still go back to the very opening volley in that thread, where I asked "So, it's OK for the president to ignore the constitution, circumvent the congress and act as a de-facto monarch, so long as he has good intentions?" and he replied "Yes, actually."

I just wasn't prepared for that. The idea that a person might have responded to that question in the affirmative just never occurred to me.

I mean, imagine for a moment that I'd asked "So, it's OK to round up all of the Jews in the whole country, inter them in forced-labor camps, and exterminate them slowly over a period of several years?"

How would you imagine most people would react if a person publicly answered "Yes, actually" to that question. Because that's literally just about the same level of incomprehension that I'm at right now.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:19 PM   #19
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The better man would rise to attention, take up his mop in his hand, and shout "HEY! THESE FLOORS ARE DIRTY AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

"I will put an end to this, once and for all," he said.

His voice was clear and without feeling.

That was all he said and started to walk out. He walked down the length of the place, in the white light, not hurrying and not noticing any of us. Nobody moved to stop him.

Gerald Starnes cried suddenly after him, "How?"

He turned and answered, "I will stop the motor of the world."

Then he walked out.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:20 PM   #20
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You get the government you deserve.
And my beef is through democracy and the monopoly of gov't, their gov't affects ME.
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