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Old 08-31-2011, 03:07 PM   #21
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Problem is, companies will now have to replace their reasonably priced high quality workers with alcoholics and thugs.
I would argue whether this is cause or effect.

Yes, to resolve the problem we have to get lowlifes into jobs...but many of them are there due to being "worked out" of jobs they would have done by illegals that offer lower cost and longer hours.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:27 PM   #22
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I would argue whether this is cause or effect.

Yes, to resolve the problem we have to get lowlifes into jobs...but many of them are there due to being "worked out" of jobs they would have done by illegals that offer higher quality, lower cost, and longer hours.
You know, there was a time that I made sure that every employee I hired had all his or her I's dotted and T's crossed. All I got were losers that would not show up to work, came in to work drunk, stole half my tools, or ripped off my customers.

I will go along with the immigration reform if everyone is willing to pay higher prices for poorer quality products.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:37 PM   #23
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I'm not arguing your point...I've worked next to these guys...speak their language...understand their world. I also LIVE next to the lazy bastards that aren't working those jobs.

But again...causality. It's two headed. We allow our government to provide appalling levels of benefits allowing many to choose a life of lounging while supplanting them with illegal aliens. Now they compare a good job to sitting at home getting high and aren't motivated to do what it takes.



Honestly if I could do anything I'd let every illegal willing to PARTICIPATE as a citizen (learn the language, vote, pay taxes) stay, and ship back our riff-raff.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:12 PM   #24
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Honestly if I could do anything I'd let every illegal willing to PARTICIPATE as a citizen (learn the language, vote, pay taxes) stay, and ship back our riff-raff.
Dude, what part of legal immigration don't you understand?!
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:31 PM   #25
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That chart is bullshit. I work with three native Turks who are all US citizens now. Each case took less than 5 years from entry to citizenship. Of the three, the parents of one are in the country, and have yet to learn english after 12 years, but he (father) still maintains a decent living as a tailor.

The other two have parents still in Turkey. One even has a Bosnian wife (also now a citizen and a teacher), and all are decent, hard working Americans.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:18 PM   #26
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Actually not a single part of it I don't understand seeing that my wife and her entire family managed to go through the whole process.

It took them 10yrs...during which her father spent massive amounts of money on plane tickets in order to keep the family somewhat together. Not to mention the time involved.

Oh, and DHS agents pull my wife and her younger sister aside every time we come back through customs from our yearly visit to Mexico City, keep them behind a door guarded by two M16 toting agents, and they invariably come out crying and hour and a half later. All over some green cards they DID turn in once they were granted citizenship, but I'm sure some shady INS agent at the Greenspoint location resold, so they get flagged every single time...even 5 yrs after the fact. Explain that to your daughter while you're on your way home from vacation.

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for the PROPER channels...my wife gets PISSED when we talked about illegal aliens because she HATES the fact they didn't earn it (she can tell you more about our nation's history and constitution than your average HS grad), that they don't pay taxes, that they don't vote, that they soak up benefits.

But it's really not possible for all...and WE are responsible for letting it get like this. Don't you honestly think if we ENFORCED our actual immigration policy their actions would be viewed as illegal even in their own eyes. But we practically put out the mat for them.

There are lots of good people that are here, desire, and deserve a path to citizenship that is much more efficient than what INS has to offer.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:27 PM   #27
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Having shitty American workers isn't an excuse to allow illegals to live here.

You can't fix one problem with another. How about we try and fix both problems? Or is it too much work? You'd rather be lazy and just hire the illegals. Hypocrite much?

I'm not actually calling anyone out saying they are lazy, but based on the logic that teens/americans being lazy justifies illegals, you are part of the problem.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:23 AM   #28
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Having shitty American workers isn't an excuse to allow illegals to live here.

You can't fix one problem with another. How about we try and fix both problems? Or is it too much work? You'd rather be lazy and just hire the illegals. Hypocrite much?

I'm not actually calling anyone out saying they are lazy, but based on the logic that teens/americans being lazy justifies illegals, you are part of the problem.
I agree.

We have basically created our own dependence on cheap, illegal labor. Propped up by minimum wage and the obtion of ridiculous unemployment benefits and welfare, we've created a citizen class that could, and should, be doing these jobs. They now feel they are above that, and no longer have the work ethic.

You're right in that it's a complicated, three headed monster of a problem.

We do however need immigration reform.

Then entitlement reform.

Then vocational education reform.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:17 AM   #29
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I agree with your reforms, but I think you have them in reverse order. Get our own house in order, and most of the immigration problem would sort itself out. If the jobs were taken by Americans - forced to work enstead of getting on the dole - the illegals wouldn't be coming here in the first place.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:12 PM   #30
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As previously stated, that chart is a steaming pile of bullcrap.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:32 PM   #31
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Is it? I ask that honestly. I would love to hear some real-world insight from people that have actual experience with the system.

Just as a starting point, what is an example of on that chart is wrong?
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