Military Pay Freeze
 

In short, for those that are lazy. Obama is proposing a freeze on our pay for 3 years (this is used to keep up with inflation, so in a sense a gradual 3 year reduction in pay). Other suggestions were made such as eliminating the Osprey program and Marines F35 program. Full story here.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...tions-111010w/

I think it would be and is political suicide for those involved.

Discuss...

I want to know where Rush Limbaugh sourced all these $150k median pay government jobs he keeps talking about. Most of us make a touch less than half of that in perpetuity, hopefully seeing six figures by our 50's.

I think it's about time. My coworker's brother is in the guard, and he makes more than an experienced engineer does for standing around in the airport in fatigues. Combat pay, no less. Fuck that. When 10%+ of the general population is out of work, and some of us have not seen a raise in 2-3 years, the gov't guys can take a little of the pain, too.

http://www.usajobs.gov/


Freezing pay for three years is lame. How about just giving raising where/when due?

Personally I think we could cut more wasteful spending...But the new Senator of AK would disagree.

I agree with rleete somewhat. But then again, if you want to bitch about the military guaranteeing paychecks on the 1st and 15th to its people, why don't you join the military? It's not as easy as you think, especially if you join the marines, army, or navy. I'll include the Air Force in here too.

Coast Guard and National Guard is for pussies.

I'm glad my 4 years is done. If they freeze my GI Bill, then I'll have a serious problem paying rent.

Whos fault is that?

That position tops out at $115K and the qualifications are in a quite narrow range. If $115k = $150k can I have $35k?

Isn't $150k Rush's annual budget for oxy?

There is zero merit-based anything in my agency. We have too many people, not enough work for our staff...but when it comes to cutting 15% this year it's being cut on seniority rather than performance. At no point in my 5-years have I seen any "real" review where my performance is reviewed, instead we focus on personnel issues.

Here's a fun fact, $61m of several billion has been awarded for Katrina programs that "mitigate" or "lessen the affects of natural hazards through things like elevating homes, acquiring homes that flood, and flood control projects to reduce funding...in the last 5-years, by upwards of 40-staff. Last year I "mitigated" $41m worth of homes so they stop making flood claims and pulling on tax money. I'm a one-man show at the federal level...and I'm on the block for the 15% personnel cut.

In 2008 we took our first loss ever in our 35 year history as a company. First they stopped our bonus program, then they froze our salaries, then they took away 401K matching. The president was fired and the acting president left his position to take over...that position has no been filled, just dropped onto the workload of the rest of us. The staff count went from around 30 people to 15, health care costs have increased ~45% as the company started paying less and plan costs increased since the number of employees dropped, it went up even more after Obamacare was passed so we can help cover kids living at home under the age of 26.

So currently I take on more work now and get paid less and have less incentives to work; they keep trying to promote the "good of our company" and to "push through" it. I start my new job soon. After hundreds of resume sent and dozens of interviews it took me well over a year to finally score a new one.

Military pay rates, on average, have been higher than their civilian counterparts for years. A few exceptions to this rule exist, and pay rates for "civilian contractors in theater" doesn't count as a civilian job. In a recession/depression, enlistments naturally go up because people can't find jobs. When military positions start becoming limited, incentives to sign up go away. When those positions start becoming dual-slotted or overfilled, economic principals suggest that compensation is too high and needs to be reduced. There are several ways to reduce pay, but the government is not going to cut military health-care, GI Bill, tuition assistance, etc. on contracted service members (though the govt may choose to reduce/limit/terminate some financial assistance programs on future new enlistments) This leaves few other options for reducing compensation packages. As it stands now, gov't continues to provide free housing to all active duty military personnel. If you aren't living on post in military housing, you recieve BAH, which is intended to be indexed to your locality median housing price for your civilian equivalent. It is unlikely that the gov't will eliminate housing, though they could always study areas which could lead to a decrease in BAH. The gov't also provides free food for all active duty soldiers - if you're not living in a barracks, you receive BAS to compensate. If they eliminate this, then those soldiers living in barracks will have an unfair advantage of food. The last remaining part of the compensation package is salary. In the military, salary can stand be reduced probably by a pretty decent amount before it falls to national competitive rates for most job skills. Once salary in the military becomes competitive, the entire compensation package still blows any capitalistic business out of the water. No president is going to come out and say "im cutting military pay rates by 15%"...holy hell, that would be the death of an entire political party. A pay freeze simply helps reduce military salary to help index it towards current market value without committing political suicide - but the process is far too slow.

Not happy with the "pay freeze"? Consider this, regardless of a "pay freeze", as a member of the military, you are still guaranteed a pay raise every two years. What civilian-equivalent jobs can say that? Furthermore, if you do well, you will get promoted, and promotions in the military are always accompanied with a significant pay raise (with the exception of being promoted from an E-9 to a higher E-9, unless that higher E-9 is the highest E-9 in that branch of the military) Many companies, in times like these, will promote you to a supervisory position without giving you a raise, or by giving you a negligible raise.

In the end, even the military must be impacted by the economy. If you want your freeze to end, then start opposing federal programs which undermine "personal responsibility" - some examples of such programs are:
o Federal minimum wage
o Unemployment
o Social Security
o Welfare
o Medicaid
o Medicare
o Government housing
o Obamacare and associated health insurance regulations

I am an active duty Soldier, and I support this pay freeze.

If he is in a warzone it is tax free. He must have pretty decent rank to be pulling more than an engineer. I am an E4 with 2 years of service, I don't make too much. I make 1986.30 a month, and 1138 for housing and 325 ish for food. About 800ish a week. However, In order to have a decent place that I wont get shot and is near base, I pay 1100 a month in rent. Food costs more than 325 a month. Then you have transportation (payment and insurance) and other misc. bills and it is alot less than you think. I am doing fine now, but a pay cut would really hurt. Either way, I don't think congress would let it fly. Between the 1.4% suggested pay raise last year, and this suggestion this year someone has most definately lost the military vote. I like the other suggestions far better, such as eliminating the V-22 program and such. There are far better ways to go about it. It wouldn't bother me so much if the money wasn't being spent in a ludacris fashion.

^ dude you get over $3,000 a month as an E4? And you say you don't make too much? What the fuck? Are you married? When I was in, you had to be an E5 to get the $1,000+ BAH. Actually in Jax, FL it was around $900. I had a lot of friends who got married instantly just because we were E1-E3 and wanted more money. I said fuck that. Never got that BAH.

I can't complain though. I get $1980 BAH from the Post 9/11 GI Bill. But still, don't say $3,000 isn't making too much. To me and most people under 30 years old, that's a lot of fucking money.

you live in jeresy. $5 a month is a lot to you.

I'm about to pay six figures in cash to SELL my house. Keep complaining.

Sorry... no sympathy from this corner.

Meh, as long as my checks are here on the 1st and 15th

Making 3k a month is not that much, especially for the shit we put up with being in the military.

But I'm not hurting for money. I get 1k a month for BAH but I'm also married...

Per wikipedia, with regard to San Antonio, TX

The median income for a household in the city is $36,214
Males have a median income of $30,061 versus $24,444 for females
The per capita income for the city is $17,487

In this average number, we have employees, supervisors, managers, proprietors, CEOs, etc. etc.

In your number, as an E-4, you are a salaried employee responsible for no subordinates.

(I realize we should compare mean income and not a median income for that to matter a whole lot, just realize that half of the employed male population in the San Antonio area makes 6k a year less than you, and half of the employed female population makes 12k a year less than you.)

They make $36,000 per household, you make $36,000 by yourself.

And then they have to pay for rent, food, and transportation just like you

And then they have to pay for health insurance and 20-year retirement just like you; oh, wait a tick... ;)

and a great majority of that are people that work retail or fast food. They work 30-40 hours a week, don't risk their life at times, have never had to work 80+ hours in a week...


Comon now.:hustler:

Here is my .02.

If you joined to protect the country... pay shouldn't be on your mind.
If you joined to get paid... realize the state of our economy and the hardships of EVERYONE... and suck it up you panzy.

Props to those protecting our country... the rest... meh?

Another thing to consider when we view the military is that it's a huge workplace, but very different than a large corporation. Unfortunately the pay structure isn't merit based and people aren't able to negotiate their contracts when they are given additional job duties. If it was, there would be a lot of people that would end up giving back their entire paycheck. Most guys that I know are out there kicking in doors while working their asses off to keep our world safe and they aren't getting paid nearly what they should be. On the other side of that, there's a whole lot of other people hiding behind desks shuffling paperwork that produce very little and go home early that are getting paid the same amount and I feel they should be getting paid a lot less.

Don't be naive... pay shouldn't be on someones mind?


One of the most ignorant things I've heard on here in a while.

I agree that people kicking down doors should get paid much more... I don't have to risk my life typically but I do work/support some very important systems that ensure people can stay alive.

People lost track of what the Military is and how many used to come to it. With one simple goal, to support and protect our country. The days of gentleman, respect and god/country are long over it seems like. Except for a shrinking few I guess.

Unless of course my father and grandfather had it all wrong. I'm still glad I didn't follow through with pursuing the military route. I respect those that choose to protect... the rest... sorry I don't. There are so many days I'm not sure this country is worth protecting anymore. It is sad.

Well to be fair our military has hardly been used appropriately for years.

Needs more rattlesnake.

1. The rattlesnake is found in no other corner of the world except America.
2. She never begins an attack nor when once engaged, never surrenders…
3. She never wounds 'till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her."

I agree, but money makes the world go round.

Oh and there is no God, so fuck that.

<-- Very much not religious.

BUT our country was founded on a moral compass built by religion... thus it carries something there in my head. Some link to a past moral/ethical compass lost to so many people these days. Only reason the god/country bit was combined.

Morality ends where a gun begins.

This is because there are none left, who are of serving age, and remember WWII.

There are two appropriate ways to deal with religion:
1. Support it
2. Ignore it

If you use any other means to deal with religion (including "denounce it", "attack it", "degrade it", "overrule it", etc.) you may very well be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

1. To become a zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question.
2. Your own happiness is the moral purpose of your life, with productive achievement as your noblest activity, and reason as your only absolute.

No offense to anyone getting a check from the gov, but 90% of the people are over payed with regards to what they do and how that job looks in the private sector. The government is a fat rich kid eating twinkies all day living off a structured settlement. I've seen figures that put a 1 to 1 ration on public vs private sector jobs. This would include local, state, federal, contractors, postal, welfare, etc. Our government is way to big. With the Federal Reserve antics, size of Gov, and trade policies...were going down folks. If you think Brains post sounds crappy just remember he is extremely lucky compared to a big portion of the population. So yes I think pay cuts and layoffs are in order.

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/32...600x600Q85.jpg

Thomas Jefferson: "If the American people ever allow the banking system to control their money, first by inflation, then by deflation; their children will one day wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

As your self appointed life coach and moral officer, I offer you congratulations.

My Air Force job in the civilian sector makes 6 figures most of the time

I'm not trying to start an efight, but that is really ignorant.

That is like saying, you got a job at McDonalds to flip burgers, pay shouldn't be on your mind.

WE HAVE FAMILIES TOO! Why the fuck shouldn't money be on our mind?

Sure some people get paid money in the military to do nothing, sure. They don't call it hurry up and wait for nothing. Not all of us are like that. I work 100+ hours a week. 6 days a week. I have 50 soldiers to care for. I go to the field for a week once a month, which means no contact really with friends/family. No warm bed, no TV, no computer. It doesn't really bother me, but some of you would curl up and die.

If you want what we have please join. See what we deal with. If you don't qualify, or don't want to kthxbai. I don't want you fucking sympathy. I do my job because I know what's out there.

There are a lot more things that need to be looked at before they start getting crazy with the military. That is the last thing this country has left. Piss them off and game over.

I thank you for your support. :giggle:

I agree with FRT 2 posts above. Though a week per month in the field is nothing compared to 6 months on a ship or in the desert. The military is not easy unless you go in for a desk jockey job or get lucky and go to shore duty right off the bat for your first (and probably only) enlistment.

Many of our jobs pay more in the civilian sector. Especially if you are in one of the "smart guy" jobs. Hell, you can get out as infantry in the army and make double to triple what you make with a private security company. I joined because I love the United States and what it stands for, and what it was built on. Keeping our rights and freedoms safe are far more important that tossing lazy asses money and free medical care. Most civilian jobs don't get called in the middle of the night if shit hits the fan, or have the possibility of getting shipped half way across the world and shot at on short notice. I assure combat pay is far less than it should be. However, there are parts of the government that are fucked up.... I just think that ours are less so than the others. I know of people that are civil servants that get paid to work from home on mondays and fridays. Get paid far more than me. Hell, there is a mentally retarded guy that washes dishes in the basement gets paid more than me. Also, he has to do way less work than an equivilent military co worker because of the labor union. Has cushy hours, and HAS to leave on time every day. Also, cant get called in early. There is a secretary that gets paid a little south of 50k a year to do nothing extremely inefficiently. She basically channels emails (horribly) uses huge amounts of office supplies for personal endeavors and gets a commander coffee while receiving phone calls and forgetting the messages. So.... where does the fat need to get cut? This scenario repeats itself over and over again in my work area, and I am sure the rest of the government. There are constantly 2 people doing one person's worth of work, and getting overpaid to do it.

This guy knows. There are definitely those that work their asses off for the pay, and there are those that don't. It's just a feature of the rank/pay system and it's made a little bit more fair by special duty pay. Myself, for instance: I made a lot more money before I enlisted, but I really wanted to serve (yes, there are still people who are joining NOT because of the economy). And the pay I get for the work I do right now is definitely fair. I'm not deployed and I'm still in training, so I don't have nearly as much responsibility as others in my shop, and I'm not in danger. Can I take a pay freeze? Absolutely. I just hope some of that money gets shifted over to the guys putting their lives on the line.

Our military and the technological innovations it spurs are what keeps our country on top (also NASA, another victim of a poor economy and lost vision for the future). I mean, shit, seems like military hardware is the only stuff still made in the USA and that's not even the case all the time anymore. Can we cut spending in the military? Yes, in many ways, and it's already happening. The AF has been doing force reduction for some time now, making things like PT tests tougher to have a reason to get rid of the personnel who just can't hack it, focus on process efficiency (incentives are out there for anyone who finds a better way to do something, six sigma training is encouraged). I imagine other branches have similar initiatives underway. There are ways to cut spending, I just don't think it should be done by cutting programs that put newer, better technology out there.

Fuck off you looter.

$3,000 a month isn't too much, especially in NJ.

^ I could afford ~$1,500 in car parts per month right now if I made $3,000 a month. Hm. I need another job.

I'd never spend $1,500 a month on car parts, I'd buy a 911 or GT-R instead! The funny thing is, I always waited for the day that I could afford a more expensive sports car and now that I can, I have no desire to drop that much money on one. However, I might buy an Exige after I pay off my Mustang.

Exige S is my dream car. I can't wait to drive it in GT5, that's about as close as I'll get to the real thing anytime soon lol

If I made 1,500 more a month, today, I'd put 1,500 more a month in a saving account.

That's because you are a jew. Your kids are going to have more fun spending your money once you die then you ever will.

I agree with you. I'm assuming you are a SERE instructor.

This is when he is NOT deployed, they also deploy a lot and do crazier shit than most of the military, assuming he is a SERE instructor. He teaches Flyers/Special Ops how to survive in the wilderness... amongst other things.

This. He's lying anyway. I'm pretty sure Braineack spent buttloads of cash on his car. My dad is a Jew and makes six figures and his main car is a 1995 Corvette automatic with 150k miles on it. Stock. His kids (me being one of 3) will get all his money.

I have $4 and some pennies in my savings account. I live every day like it's my last.

aren't you cool!

Shueinds knows how little I am willing to spend on my car, or food, do you need me to take a picture of my fridge again?

bet my fridge is emptier than yours lol. I'm not going to argue, you're probably in your 30s which explains why you might have money in savings and baller parts in your Miata.