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Old 11-18-2010, 09:49 AM   #1
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Default Military Pay Freeze

In short, for those that are lazy. Obama is proposing a freeze on our pay for 3 years (this is used to keep up with inflation, so in a sense a gradual 3 year reduction in pay). Other suggestions were made such as eliminating the Osprey program and Marines F35 program. Full story here.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...tions-111010w/

I think it would be and is political suicide for those involved.

Discuss...
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:04 AM   #2
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I want to know where Rush Limbaugh sourced all these $150k median pay government jobs he keeps talking about. Most of us make a touch less than half of that in perpetuity, hopefully seeing six figures by our 50's.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:09 AM   #3
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I think it's about time. My coworker's brother is in the guard, and he makes more than an experienced engineer does for standing around in the airport in fatigues. Combat pay, no less. **** that. When 10%+ of the general population is out of work, and some of us have not seen a raise in 2-3 years, the gov't guys can take a little of the pain, too.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:09 AM   #4
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I want to know where Rush Limbaugh sourced all these $150k median pay government jobs he keeps talking about. Most of us make a touch less than half of that in perpetuity, hopefully seeing six figures by our 50's.
http://www.usajobs.gov/


Freezing pay for three years is lame. How about just giving raising where/when due?

Personally I think we could cut more wasteful spending...But the new Senator of AK would disagree.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:13 AM   #5
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I agree with rleete somewhat. But then again, if you want to bitch about the military guaranteeing paychecks on the 1st and 15th to its people, why don't you join the military? It's not as easy as you think, especially if you join the marines, army, or navy. I'll include the Air Force in here too.

Coast Guard and National Guard is for pussies.

I'm glad my 4 years is done. If they freeze my GI Bill, then I'll have a serious problem paying rent.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by SlideRuler View Post
If they freeze my GI Bill, then I'll have a serious problem paying rent.

Whos fault is that?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:19 AM   #7
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That position tops out at $115K and the qualifications are in a quite narrow range. If $115k = $150k can I have $35k?

Isn't $150k Rush's annual budget for oxy?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
http://www.usajobs.gov/


Freezing pay for three years is lame. How about just giving raising where/when due?

Personally I think we could cut more wasteful spending...But the new Senator of AK would disagree.
There is zero merit-based anything in my agency. We have too many people, not enough work for our staff...but when it comes to cutting 15% this year it's being cut on seniority rather than performance. At no point in my 5-years have I seen any "real" review where my performance is reviewed, instead we focus on personnel issues.

Here's a fun fact, $61m of several billion has been awarded for Katrina programs that "mitigate" or "lessen the affects of natural hazards through things like elevating homes, acquiring homes that flood, and flood control projects to reduce funding...in the last 5-years, by upwards of 40-staff. Last year I "mitigated" $41m worth of homes so they stop making flood claims and pulling on tax money. I'm a one-man show at the federal level...and I'm on the block for the 15% personnel cut.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:36 AM   #9
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In 2008 we took our first loss ever in our 35 year history as a company. First they stopped our bonus program, then they froze our salaries, then they took away 401K matching. The president was fired and the acting president left his position to take over...that position has no been filled, just dropped onto the workload of the rest of us. The staff count went from around 30 people to 15, health care costs have increased ~45% as the company started paying less and plan costs increased since the number of employees dropped, it went up even more after Obamacare was passed so we can help cover kids living at home under the age of 26.

So currently I take on more work now and get paid less and have less incentives to work; they keep trying to promote the "good of our company" and to "push through" it. I start my new job soon. After hundreds of resume sent and dozens of interviews it took me well over a year to finally score a new one.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:01 AM   #10
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Military pay rates, on average, have been higher than their civilian counterparts for years. A few exceptions to this rule exist, and pay rates for "civilian contractors in theater" doesn't count as a civilian job. In a recession/depression, enlistments naturally go up because people can't find jobs. When military positions start becoming limited, incentives to sign up go away. When those positions start becoming dual-slotted or overfilled, economic principals suggest that compensation is too high and needs to be reduced. There are several ways to reduce pay, but the government is not going to cut military health-care, GI Bill, tuition assistance, etc. on contracted service members (though the govt may choose to reduce/limit/terminate some financial assistance programs on future new enlistments) This leaves few other options for reducing compensation packages. As it stands now, gov't continues to provide free housing to all active duty military personnel. If you aren't living on post in military housing, you recieve BAH, which is intended to be indexed to your locality median housing price for your civilian equivalent. It is unlikely that the gov't will eliminate housing, though they could always study areas which could lead to a decrease in BAH. The gov't also provides free food for all active duty soldiers - if you're not living in a barracks, you receive BAS to compensate. If they eliminate this, then those soldiers living in barracks will have an unfair advantage of food. The last remaining part of the compensation package is salary. In the military, salary can stand be reduced probably by a pretty decent amount before it falls to national competitive rates for most job skills. Once salary in the military becomes competitive, the entire compensation package still blows any capitalistic business out of the water. No president is going to come out and say "im cutting military pay rates by 15%"...holy hell, that would be the death of an entire political party. A pay freeze simply helps reduce military salary to help index it towards current market value without committing political suicide - but the process is far too slow.

Not happy with the "pay freeze"? Consider this, regardless of a "pay freeze", as a member of the military, you are still guaranteed a pay raise every two years. What civilian-equivalent jobs can say that? Furthermore, if you do well, you will get promoted, and promotions in the military are always accompanied with a significant pay raise (with the exception of being promoted from an E-9 to a higher E-9, unless that higher E-9 is the highest E-9 in that branch of the military) Many companies, in times like these, will promote you to a supervisory position without giving you a raise, or by giving you a negligible raise.

In the end, even the military must be impacted by the economy. If you want your freeze to end, then start opposing federal programs which undermine "personal responsibility" - some examples of such programs are:
o Federal minimum wage
o Unemployment
o Social Security
o Welfare
o Medicaid
o Medicare
o Government housing
o Obamacare and associated health insurance regulations

I am an active duty Soldier, and I support this pay freeze.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
I think it's about time. My coworker's brother is in the guard, and he makes more than an experienced engineer does for standing around in the airport in fatigues. Combat pay, no less. **** that. When 10%+ of the general population is out of work, and some of us have not seen a raise in 2-3 years, the gov't guys can take a little of the pain, too.
If he is in a warzone it is tax free. He must have pretty decent rank to be pulling more than an engineer. I am an E4 with 2 years of service, I don't make too much. I make 1986.30 a month, and 1138 for housing and 325 ish for food. About 800ish a week. However, In order to have a decent place that I wont get shot and is near base, I pay 1100 a month in rent. Food costs more than 325 a month. Then you have transportation (payment and insurance) and other misc. bills and it is alot less than you think. I am doing fine now, but a pay cut would really hurt. Either way, I don't think congress would let it fly. Between the 1.4% suggested pay raise last year, and this suggestion this year someone has most definately lost the military vote. I like the other suggestions far better, such as eliminating the V-22 program and such. There are far better ways to go about it. It wouldn't bother me so much if the money wasn't being spent in a ludacris fashion.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:26 AM   #12
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^ dude you get over $3,000 a month as an E4? And you say you don't make too much? What the ****? Are you married? When I was in, you had to be an E5 to get the $1,000+ BAH. Actually in Jax, FL it was around $900. I had a lot of friends who got married instantly just because we were E1-E3 and wanted more money. I said **** that. Never got that BAH.

I can't complain though. I get $1980 BAH from the Post 9/11 GI Bill. But still, don't say $3,000 isn't making too much. To me and most people under 30 years old, that's a lot of ******* money.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:31 AM   #13
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you live in jeresy. $5 a month is a lot to you.

I'm about to pay six figures in cash to SELL my house. Keep complaining.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
If he is in a warzone it is tax free. He must have pretty decent rank to be pulling more than an engineer. I am an E4 with 2 years of service, I don't make too much. I make 1986.30 a month, and 1138 for housing and 325 ish for food. About 800ish a week. However, In order to have a decent place that I wont get shot and is near base, I pay 1100 a month in rent. Food costs more than 325 a month. Then you have transportation (payment and insurance) and other misc. bills and it is alot less than you think. I am doing fine now, but a pay cut would really hurt. Either way, I don't think congress would let it fly. Between the 1.4% suggested pay raise last year, and this suggestion this year someone has most definately lost the military vote. I like the other suggestions far better, such as eliminating the V-22 program and such. There are far better ways to go about it. It wouldn't bother me so much if the money wasn't being spent in a ludacris fashion.
Sorry... no sympathy from this corner.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:36 AM   #15
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Meh, as long as my checks are here on the 1st and 15th
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:37 AM   #16
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Making 3k a month is not that much, especially for the **** we put up with being in the military.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:39 AM   #17
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But I'm not hurting for money. I get 1k a month for BAH but I'm also married...
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
If he is in a warzone it is tax free. He must have pretty decent rank to be pulling more than an engineer. I am an E4 with 2 years of service, I don't make too much. I make 1986.30 a month, and 1138 for housing and 325 ish for food. About 800ish a week. However, In order to have a decent place that I wont get shot and is near base, I pay 1100 a month in rent. Food costs more than 325 a month. Then you have transportation (payment and insurance) and other misc. bills and it is alot less than you think. I am doing fine now, but a pay cut would really hurt. Either way, I don't think congress would let it fly. Between the 1.4% suggested pay raise last year, and this suggestion this year someone has most definately lost the military vote. I like the other suggestions far better, such as eliminating the V-22 program and such. There are far better ways to go about it. It wouldn't bother me so much if the money wasn't being spent in a ludacris fashion.
Per wikipedia, with regard to San Antonio, TX

The median income for a household in the city is $36,214
Males have a median income of $30,061 versus $24,444 for females
The per capita income for the city is $17,487

In this average number, we have employees, supervisors, managers, proprietors, CEOs, etc. etc.

In your number, as an E-4, you are a salaried employee responsible for no subordinates.

(I realize we should compare mean income and not a median income for that to matter a whole lot, just realize that half of the employed male population in the San Antonio area makes 6k a year less than you, and half of the employed female population makes 12k a year less than you.)

They make $36,000 per household, you make $36,000 by yourself.

And then they have to pay for rent, food, and transportation just like you

And then they have to pay for health insurance and 20-year retirement just like you; oh, wait a tick...
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Per wikipedia, with regard to San Antonio, TX

The median income for a household in the city is $36,214
Males have a median income of $30,061 versus $24,444 for females
The per capita income for the city is $17,487

In this average number, we have employees, supervisors, managers, proprietors, CEOs, etc. etc.

In your number, as an E-4, you are a salaried employee responsible for no subordinates.

(I realize we should compare mean income and not a median income for that to matter a whole lot, just realize that half of the employed male population in the San Antonio area makes 6k a year less than you, and half of the employed female population makes 12k a year less than you.)

They make $36,000 per household, you make $36,000 by yourself.

And then they have to pay for rent, food, and transportation just like you

And then they have to pay for health insurance and 20-year retirement just like you; oh, wait a tick...


and a great majority of that are people that work retail or fast food. They work 30-40 hours a week, don't risk their life at times, have never had to work 80+ hours in a week...


Comon now.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:49 AM   #20
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Here is my .02.

If you joined to protect the country... pay shouldn't be on your mind.
If you joined to get paid... realize the state of our economy and the hardships of EVERYONE... and suck it up you panzy.

Props to those protecting our country... the rest... meh?
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