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Norway Shooting/Bombing 92 dead.
What is believed to be a car bomb went off in Oslo Norway yesterday, killing 7 people. Several hours later a man dressed as a police officer gunned down at least 80 on a island.
http://news.yahoo.com/norway-horror-...021706287.html |
Pretty mind-boggling that one person can carry out that much death and destruction. I have read conflicting reports on what he was armed with, but for him to have been able to wander the island and just mow down teenagers at a summer camp like that... Truly horrific and cowardly.
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Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
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Originally Posted by olderguy
(Post 752223)
Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN
(Post 752224)
Even in the states, not many people with a CCW hanging out on islands with nothing but summer camps on them.
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Originally Posted by olderguy
(Post 752231)
I think that once someone has a CCW, they don't go anywhere without a weapon. I would always fear that something would happen when I could have been prepared and wasn't.
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Originally Posted by olderguy
(Post 752223)
Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
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We lost our innocense in the worst imaginable way yesterday. This is the worst act of violence on Norwegian soil since World War 2. Hard to fathom that the threat was from an enemy within and not a foreign group of religious fanatics.
We are a small country and with the number of people killed or injured a large portion of the country might have a friend, co-worker or loved one amongst those directly affected. As a nation we are all affected and in shock. (CCW neither is or will ever be allowed in Norway. Our police officers don`t even carry guns on normal patrol and no-one else should need to either. But this will never be a fruitful discussion, our general type of crime is very different from the US and very rarely involves guns.) (Edit; We have the same basic gun laws that you have, except for the lack of a constitutional right to carry or own guns. You can have as many handguns as you like as long as you use them for competitive or recreational purposes. You just can`t own a gun because it pleases you. A need for one has to be laid forth to the authorities. Need would be hunting or competitive or even recreational shooting. Full auto is forbidden.) |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 752210)
Pretty mind-boggling that one person can carry out that much death and destruction.
The exception are the psychopaths that rise to positions of political power and then start wars. P.S. the first news item I saw about this used the word "terrorist", which made me :rolleyes:. Always more "terror" to justify the apparatchik. |
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 752252)
It's also amazing how rarely it happens, that a person goes bonkers like this, given how easy the logistics are.
There is no background check required to purchase pre-threaded lengths of iron pipe, model rocket engine igniters and gunpowder. (For those of you not located in North America, gunpowder can be purchased off-the-shelf in large quantities (typically 1lb / .45 kg) from retail stores such as Wal-Mart, as well as in larger containers from stores which specialize in sport and hunting equipment. There are no restrictions at all on the sale of gunpowder, other than that you must be 18 years old to purchase it. If anything, it's easier now then it was when I was a kid and we'd blow up old tree stumps in the woods. Nowadays, little electronic gadgets like the arduino make building timers / electronic detonators much easier. It's a testament to the basic sanity of mankind that the term IED was not in the popular lexicon until the past decade, and that only from afar. P.S. the first news item I saw about this used the word "terrorist", which made me :rolleyes:. Always more "terror" to justify the apparatchik. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 752255)
Funny that the same thought occurs to me every now and then. The fact of the matter is that even today, gathering the parts to build something like large pipe bomb and then detonating it in a crowded, enclosed space (eg: library, shopping mall, movie theater, etc) is trivially easy.
On the thought of people not going berserk... did you ever look over the edge of a railing and the thought of just jumping off crosses your mind? One time watching a jazz concert, during a quiet passage, the thought crossed my mind, of suddenly jumping up, running, and screaming invectives. And then I'm amazed nobody goes bonkers and does it. LOL.
Originally Posted by Joe
This is all the Bush administration's fault for starting a crusade
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"Up to 21 years in prison" ... the fuck is wrong with Norway?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07...s-lawyer-says/ Please tell me this is a mistake and hes looking at 21 years for each murder. |
21 years is not justice.
Toss that mother fucker off a helicopter in the middle of the desert. After you cut his finger tips off with a hammer and chisel. |
Originally Posted by KPLAFIN
(Post 752448)
"Up to 21 years in prison" ... the fuck is wrong with Norway?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07...s-lawyer-says/ Please tell me this is a mistake and hes looking at 21 years for each murder. |
No sentence will ever be justice for what is done.
I`m not going to defend the max 21 years we have, but for the type of crime we have it is usually adequate. NOW, we do have the possibility to sentence him to a practically indefinate periode of prison custody in addition to the 21 year sentence. This means he can be kept in prison for the rest of his life with no chance of release. This person will never see the outside of a prison cell again. Citizens of Norway, like me, will never accept his release back into our society. My personal belief is that he will either commit suicide or be killed once sentenced and put in prison. Read in the news today that he has stated during interrogation that he was fully aware of the atrocity in his actions, but that they were necessary to change the political environment in Norway. Has taken responsibility for both the bombing and the shooting, but still has pleaded not guilty. |
And why does he think killing innocents will help change the gov't?
BTW Anyone who thinks the gov't is too authoritarian and thinks that acts of violence will help make the gov't less authoritarian is sorely mistaken. |
Apparently this is part of a grand scheme leading to an uprising and a civil war against muslims in Europe. Haven`t yet read all of his ramblings that`s been released through the media, but he has released a 1500 page manifesto which dictates a timeline of events all the way till 2083...
There is to be a court hearing tomorrow. Anders Behring Breivik (the terrorist) has stated he wants it to be an open hearing and that he is "looking forward" to explaining himself in front of the public. Currently police seem to demand the hearing be held behind "closed doors" but I guess we`ll see tomorrow what happens. |
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 752252)
It's also amazing how rarely it happens, that a person goes bonkers like this, given how easy the logistics are. I mean, I would be proud of designing a power supply (my day job) with a 10 PPM failure rate - a 10 PPM failure rate of people going bonkers in this country would be 3000 mass murderers!
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Ironically, I would argue his actions are more likely to lead to the opposite reaction he was hoping for. Instead of politicians and citizens taking a harder, serious look at the lack of integration of various immigrant groups (Shariah-supporting Islamics in particular), these attacks will likely only serve to clamp down on the dialogue as critics get branded "right wing extremists" or "Islamaphobes" even more so than before.
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Just like America is "more" racist with Obama as pres?
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 752818)
Just like America is "more" racist with Obama as pres?
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there are alot of videos on liveleak. nsfw i guess since its dead people
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384 - some shit he sent fb friends http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95e_1311528385 - post explosion http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fd_1311395602 - dead bodies http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=510_1311414784 - pic of him shooting |
So if some lone wolf is angry at the world and kills 100 people, he's a nutjob mass murderer, and regular police work is all we need to stop or catch them.
If some lone wolf is angry at the government and kills 100 people, he's a terrorist, and we need the Patriot Act and loss of our freedoms to stop or catch them. Additionally, I don't get why "he's a terrorist", if he was acting alone. He's not part of a terrorist group. Unless of course you want to scare the population into accepting draconian surveillance laws... |
Breivik had “copied and pasted” almost a dozen key passages from the 69 year-old’s 35,000 manifesto, only changing particular words such as “leftist” with “cultural Marxist”.
He's not even creative. |
Since when did the word "terrorist" apply only to people working as part of a large group?
We may be accustomed to those individuals engaged in terrorist acts working as part of an organization, however I don't see that being a prerequisite for the label. |
Acutally, he claims he was part of a small group that intended to “seize political and military control of Western European countries and implement a cultural conservative political agenda".
doesn't sound very conservative like to me. maybe he meant facist? none-the-less, dude is crazy, the end. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 752818)
Just like America is "more" racist with Obama as pres?
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 752852)
Additionally, I don't get why "he's a terrorist", if he was acting alone. He's not part of a terrorist group. Unless of course you want to scare the population into accepting draconian surveillance laws...
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 752889)
What? I think that reference fails on multiple points (assuming you were responding to my post above).
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So, people often complain that not enough leaders of the Muslim community speak out when Islamic terrorists strike. I sometimes wonder if that has less to do with them remaining quiet and more to do with them not having the outlet (or knowing where to go).
Similarly, some people have used that analogy to ask where are the Christians denouncing this madman's actions. More specifically, below are the reactions of several leaders of European nationalist groups and governmental parties. This is the first time I have seen this, despite scanning coverage from several US and European news outlets: Far-Right Groups Distance Themselves From Norway Massacre BY KATARINA GUSTAFSSON OF DOWJONES NEWSWIRES STOCKHOLM (Dow Jones) -- Far-right and anti-immigration parties around Europe Sunday distanced themselves from Anders Behring Breivik, who has been charged with carrying out Friday's deadly attacks in Norway. Breivik joined the Norwegian Progress Party, which advocated a "restrictive" immigration policy, in 1999 and was a paid-up member until 2004, but its leader Siv Jensen said in a statement Sunday that "The horrible and cowardly attacks we've witnessed are contrary to the principles and values underpinning the Norwegian society". She added: "It makes me feel extra sad to know that this person once was a member in our party." In his 1,500-page manifesto in which he railed against what he called the "Islamization of Western Europe." Breivik linked to nationalist groups from other European countries. One of those groups is the nationalist Sweden Democrats, which blames Muslims for social ills. Its leader Jimmie Akesson, said in a statement the tragedy in Norway was "an attack on the entire democratic society." There is no information the Norwegian gunman had been in touch with the Sweden Democrats, Martin Kinnunen, a spokesman for the party, told Dow Jones Newswires Sunday. The right-ring Pro Deutschland group in Germany said in a statement: "As Christians and Conservatives, we want to express solidarity with the victims of the attacks of July 22. The hate that is driving Islamic assassins and fanatic individuals a la...Breivik is foreign to Christians and Conservatives." Soeren Espersen, a spokesman for the Danish People's Party, which opposes multiculturalism, compared Breivik to Muslim fundamentalists saying both should be "fought hard, with despise and uncompromising determination". The National Democrats, another Swedish nationalist party referred to in the manifesto, said in a statement that the Norway massacre is "a terrible act of war", but blamed the events on "an unsustainable and partly absurd politics" and said "the multicultural experiment must be stopped and phased out." Although fiercely anti-Muslim, Breivik directed his violence at native Norwegians who he said in his manifesto were complicit in allowing immigration, and that attacking Muslims should only be done after a change in European regimes. Swedish National Democrats party leader Marc Abramsson said in an interview that to hurt your own people is incompatible with the nationalistic philosophy. The leader of the Dutch right-wing party PVV Geert Wilders condemned in a Twitter message the Norwegian attacks as an action of a "violent and sick mind" while French National Front leader Marine Le Pen said in a statement: "The National Front has of course nothing to do to the Norwegian slaughter, which is the work of a lone lunatic who must be ruthlessly punished." Police in Norway said Sunday that 93 people have died as a result of Friday's attacks in Norway. A car bomb killed seven people in central Oslo, while 86 died after the shootings on the island of Utoya. ---By Katarina Gustafsson, Dow Jones Newswires +46-8-5451-3097; katarina.gustafsson@dowjones.com (Geraldine Amiel, Archibald Preuschat, Flemming Hansen, and Natasha Divac contributed to this article.) |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 752971)
Similarly, some people have used that analogy to ask where are the Christians denouncing this madman's actions.
I'm not going to pretend that every madman is a leftist or Muslim, but let's also not pretend that there's a culture of terror in the Christian community like there is in the Muslim community. |
BUT EXUDUS 22:20 or something.
also: Helpers of Global Jihad claimed involvement upon first hearing about the attack. Jihad Watch details how this group thought this was punishment for un-believers and retribution for the occupation of Afghanistan. The message was interpreted by Will McCants, a faculty member at Johns Hopkins, as well by Jihad Watch. A person claiming to be a true Muslim and killing someone in the name of Islam on the otherhand... |
So let's say for the sake of the argument that a "terrorist" can be acting alone.
Why would we need special laws e.g. the Patriot Act to combat lone nutballs who are angry at the gov't vs those who are simply angry at everything else? |
Brain: organized religions suck. Some organized religions suck more than others.
However, for those who don't trust the gov't - why trust them when they give the reason for "muslim anger" as "they hate us for our freedoms", instead of the foreign policy that they, the wise men in gov't, have created "for us"? |
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