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Old 07-23-2011, 01:32 AM   #1
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Default Norway Shooting/Bombing 92 dead.

What is believed to be a car bomb went off in Oslo Norway yesterday, killing 7 people. Several hours later a man dressed as a police officer gunned down at least 80 on a island.

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-horror-...021706287.html

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Old 07-23-2011, 08:21 AM   #2
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Pretty mind-boggling that one person can carry out that much death and destruction. I have read conflicting reports on what he was armed with, but for him to have been able to wander the island and just mow down teenagers at a summer camp like that... Truly horrific and cowardly.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:36 AM   #3
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Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #4
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Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
Even in the states, not many people with a CCW hanging out on islands with nothing but summer camps on them.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:52 AM   #5
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Even in the states, not many people with a CCW hanging out on islands with nothing but summer camps on them.
I think that once someone has a CCW, they don't go anywhere without a weapon. I would always fear that something would happen when I could have been prepared and wasn't.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:55 AM   #6
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I think that once someone has a CCW, they don't go anywhere without a weapon. I would always fear that something would happen when I could have been prepared and wasn't.
I completely agree, I carry when I'm in the states, unless I'm somewhere that carry is specifically prohibited by law (not many places in VA) I am carrying. However, I'm pretty sure that not many summer camp counselors or kids are carrying these days. I get what you're saying, just not sure that gun laws are to blame in this specific instance, and its not often I make a statement like that.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #7
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Willing to bet that no CCW allowed in Norway or someone could have stopped him earlier.
Done some research, CCW is non-existent in Norway and handgun ownership is limited to 1 per person. Other than that their laws don't seem to be any worse than any other European country though. Gun laws are one of the few major reasons I'll never permanently move to Europe.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:39 PM   #8
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We lost our innocense in the worst imaginable way yesterday. This is the worst act of violence on Norwegian soil since World War 2. Hard to fathom that the threat was from an enemy within and not a foreign group of religious fanatics.

We are a small country and with the number of people killed or injured a large portion of the country might have a friend, co-worker or loved one amongst those directly affected. As a nation we are all affected and in shock.

(CCW neither is or will ever be allowed in Norway. Our police officers don`t even carry guns on normal patrol and no-one else should need to either. But this will never be a fruitful discussion, our general type of crime is very different from the US and very rarely involves guns.)

(Edit;
We have the same basic gun laws that you have, except for the lack of a constitutional right to carry or own guns.
You can have as many handguns as you like as long as you use them for competitive or recreational purposes. You just can`t own a gun because it pleases you. A need for one has to be laid forth to the authorities. Need would be hunting or competitive or even recreational shooting. Full auto is forbidden.)

Last edited by lassi; 07-23-2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason: gun laws info
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:56 PM   #9
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Pretty mind-boggling that one person can carry out that much death and destruction.
It's also amazing how rarely it happens, that a person goes bonkers like this, given how easy the logistics are. I mean, I would be proud of designing a power supply (my day job) with a 10 PPM failure rate - a 10 PPM failure rate of people going bonkers in this country would be 3000 mass murderers!

The exception are the psychopaths that rise to positions of political power and then start wars.

P.S. the first news item I saw about this used the word "terrorist", which made me . Always more "terror" to justify the apparatchik.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:20 PM   #10
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It's also amazing how rarely it happens, that a person goes bonkers like this, given how easy the logistics are.
Funny that the same thought occurs to me every now and then. The fact of the matter is that even today, gathering the parts to build something like large pipe bomb and then detonating it in a crowded, enclosed space (eg: library, shopping mall, movie theater, etc) is trivially easy.

There is no background check required to purchase pre-threaded lengths of iron pipe, model rocket engine igniters and gunpowder. (For those of you not located in North America, gunpowder can be purchased off-the-shelf in large quantities (typically 1lb / .45 kg) from retail stores such as Wal-Mart, as well as in larger containers from stores which specialize in sport and hunting equipment. There are no restrictions at all on the sale of gunpowder, other than that you must be 18 years old to purchase it.

If anything, it's easier now then it was when I was a kid and we'd blow up old tree stumps in the woods. Nowadays, little electronic gadgets like the arduino make building timers / electronic detonators much easier.

It's a testament to the basic sanity of mankind that the term IED was not in the popular lexicon until the past decade, and that only from afar.



Quote:
P.S. the first news item I saw about this used the word "terrorist", which made me . Always more "terror" to justify the apparatchik.
Well, yeah. This is all the Bush administration's fault for starting a crusade and then arm-twisting all of our European friends into participating. (At least, that's what the radio story I heard strongly implied.)
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:27 PM   #11
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Funny that the same thought occurs to me every now and then. The fact of the matter is that even today, gathering the parts to build something like large pipe bomb and then detonating it in a crowded, enclosed space (eg: library, shopping mall, movie theater, etc) is trivially easy.
Or how easy it is to be merely drive at high speed, then just cross over the center to hit an oncoming car head on. Yet it seems quite rare.


On the thought of people not going berserk... did you ever look over the edge of a railing and the thought of just jumping off crosses your mind? One time watching a jazz concert, during a quiet passage, the thought crossed my mind, of suddenly jumping up, running, and screaming invectives. And then I'm amazed nobody goes bonkers and does it. LOL.

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This is all the Bush administration's fault for starting a crusade
Yup, which is of course, continued by the present Admin. It benefits the monster known as The Bureaucracy.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:12 AM   #12
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"Up to 21 years in prison" ... the **** is wrong with Norway?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07...s-lawyer-says/

Please tell me this is a mistake and hes looking at 21 years for each murder.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:38 AM   #13
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21 years is not justice.

Toss that mother ****** off a helicopter in the middle of the desert. After you cut his finger tips off with a hammer and chisel.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
"Up to 21 years in prison" ... the **** is wrong with Norway?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07...s-lawyer-says/

Please tell me this is a mistake and hes looking at 21 years for each murder.
I'm not sure if the penalties are stackable. But it's a widely known fact that Norway's highest sentence for murder is only 21 years. After all, Count Grishnackh only got 21 years for killing Euronymous in cold blood.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:38 AM   #15
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No sentence will ever be justice for what is done.

I`m not going to defend the max 21 years we have, but for the type of crime we have it is usually adequate.

NOW, we do have the possibility to sentence him to a practically indefinate periode of prison custody in addition to the 21 year sentence. This means he can be kept in prison for the rest of his life with no chance of release.

This person will never see the outside of a prison cell again. Citizens of Norway, like me, will never accept his release back into our society.

My personal belief is that he will either commit suicide or be killed once sentenced and put in prison.

Read in the news today that he has stated during interrogation that he was fully aware of the atrocity in his actions, but that they were necessary to change the political environment in Norway. Has taken responsibility for both the bombing and the shooting, but still has pleaded not guilty.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:44 PM   #16
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And why does he think killing innocents will help change the gov't?


BTW Anyone who thinks the gov't is too authoritarian and thinks that acts of violence will help make the gov't less authoritarian is sorely mistaken.
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:43 PM   #17
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Apparently this is part of a grand scheme leading to an uprising and a civil war against muslims in Europe. Haven`t yet read all of his ramblings that`s been released through the media, but he has released a 1500 page manifesto which dictates a timeline of events all the way till 2083...

There is to be a court hearing tomorrow. Anders Behring Breivik (the terrorist) has stated he wants it to be an open hearing and that he is "looking forward" to explaining himself in front of the public. Currently police seem to demand the hearing be held behind "closed doors" but I guess we`ll see tomorrow what happens.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
It's also amazing how rarely it happens, that a person goes bonkers like this, given how easy the logistics are. I mean, I would be proud of designing a power supply (my day job) with a 10 PPM failure rate - a 10 PPM failure rate of people going bonkers in this country would be 3000 mass murderers!
The population in Norway is only 5mil, so that would only be 1PPM or 60 mass murderers in the US or 60 Breitbart blogging, right-wing extremist, Conservative, Christian, Teahadist, mass murderers (as some lovely blogger put it this morning).
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:41 AM   #19
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Ironically, I would argue his actions are more likely to lead to the opposite reaction he was hoping for. Instead of politicians and citizens taking a harder, serious look at the lack of integration of various immigrant groups (Shariah-supporting Islamics in particular), these attacks will likely only serve to clamp down on the dialogue as critics get branded "right wing extremists" or "Islamaphobes" even more so than before.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:50 AM   #20
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Just like America is "more" racist with Obama as pres?
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