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Old 07-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #21
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Ok so no one really sees any 4th amendment violations?
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #22
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Ok so no one really sees any 4th amendment violations?
Honestly, I find this point to be irrelevant because you will not stop this kind of behavior from any government. As long as agencies like the CIA and NSA exist you will always be surveyed on some level. They don't have the time to actually devote time to everyone but they will gather data on everyone they can in case you become of interest later. This type of behavior has always taken place it is just getting easier with technology. People should know about it but if anyone thinks they can stop it is just na´ve.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #23
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You signed all your amendments away with those terms and conditions you never read. Sorry.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:02 PM   #24
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:09 PM   #25
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:56 PM   #26
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You signed all your amendments away with those terms and conditions you never read. Sorry.
Don't bullshit with me Alex, Terms and conditions are irrelevant to this discussion. The whole "you give your info to facebook" is just bullshit. I don't buy it, and I don't use fb either.

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Honestly, I find this point to be irrelevant because you will not stop this kind of behavior from any government. As long as agencies like the CIA and NSA exist you will always be surveyed on some level. They don't have the time to actually devote time to everyone but they will gather data on everyone they can in case you become of interest later. This type of behavior has always taken place it is just getting easier with technology. People should know about it but if anyone thinks they can stop it is just na´ve.
And your proposed solution is...to not give a **** and take it up the ***?

I don't know, I don't think I can change it. But I do feel compelled to talk with others about it, maybe I am just crazy. Maybe not. You have to admit, its not in the spirit of the constitution and is further proof of why "big" government just doesn't work.





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Old 07-08-2013, 06:59 PM   #27
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Don't bullshit with me Alex, Terms and conditions are irrelevant to this discussion. The whole "you give your info to facebook" is just bullshit. I don't buy it, and I don't use fb either.
I was actually just making a joke.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:02 PM   #28
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And your proposed solution is...to not give a **** and take it up the ***?

I don't know, I don't think I can change it. But I do feel compelled to talk with others about it, maybe I am just crazy. Maybe not. You have to admit, its not in the spirit of the constitution and is further proof of why "big" government just doesn't work.
I guess I missed the part where I was getting fucked up the ***. My solution is to be informed and make sure that any behavior I don't want recorded is performed in a way that will not trace back to me easily. Pay for alcohol at bars with cash for instance so that if I do get pulled over they cannot use my credit card receipt to prove what or how much I drank. If I surf the net for how to make bombs to blow up government buildings I don't use my own computer or IP. Stuff like that.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:08 PM   #29
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I guess I missed the part where I was getting fucked up the ***. My solution is to be informed and make sure that any behavior I don't want recorded is performed in a way that will not trace back to me easily. Pay for alcohol at bars with cash for instance so that if I do get pulled over they cannot use my credit card receipt to prove what or how much I drank. If I surf the net for how to make bombs to blow up government buildings I don't use my own computer or IP. Stuff like that.
Pretty much this. Believe it or not, it's very easy for your **** to get hacked by anyone. So you should use a secure means of communication/etc.. no matter what, because you never know who is listening. This is possible to do a number of ways, if you actually care about your privacy the effort would be worth it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:18 PM   #30
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This is an unsecure line. They are all unsecure lines. There is no secure electronic communication without spending ridiculous amounts of money.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:22 PM   #31
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This is an unsecure line. They are all unsecure lines. There is no secure electronic communication without spending ridiculous amounts of money.
Nothing is "secure" but there are ways to be untraceable if you just take a little time to learn how. It is not even very difficult or technical. I really don't engage in behavior that I feel compelled to hide so I don't need to know how to bounce my connection off of servers in 7 different countries that don't give the NSA access but this is easily accomplished. What you say might not be private but your identity can be.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #32
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Its ok ladies, we can have our webcam sexchats on google +
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:40 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Track View Post
Ok so no one really sees any 4th amendment violations?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


A couple of points here:

One is that this article offers protection against UNREASONABLE searches and seizures, and the constitution as a whole leaves to the US Supreme Court the duty to interpret, among other things, what is reasonable for any given context. The key idea to understand here is that NOT ALL searches are unreasonable.


Another point to consider is the question of WHAT is protected. Is the NSA searching your person? Are they coming into your home and seizing your ****? Are they sifting through the contents of your hard drive (modern equivalent of "papers")?

Nothing in the constitution assures the privacy of communications.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:53 PM   #34
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:54 PM   #35
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I am about to give these guys a try.

This along with PRISM is why I am pissed off.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:14 PM   #36
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... With the technological age we are in do you really think that a government is not going to use surveillance on its own citizens for the purposes of national security?

I am not saying that they listen to my actual phone calls or conversations. But I never made a call and thought, "You know I bet no one could find out I made this call." ...
That sums it up for me.

For a while I was terrified of Google. What do they want all that information for? It must be something bad, right? Then I realized that they're not the least bit interested in the skid marks on my underwear. Really, they're just trying to do amazing **** before anyone else does, and that's mainly because, as consumers, we expect them to deliver amazing ****. So now, I still have a gmail account, but I don't use it to discuss my terrorist plans. I also don't worry about the fact that they know the GPS location of the wireless router at my house. In the end it doesn't hurt me at all (let me repeat: it doesn't hurt me at all) and if it makes amazing **** possible, then I'm glad to help.

Likewise with the Government. We all expect them to protect all 'Mericans. We demand that they get their act together WAY more than every bad guy on the planet and thwart any terrorist efforts before the terrorists even make the plans.

But we're not willing to pay anything for this?

Personally, I do not feel threatened knowing that it's public record that I called Jack Handy on Thursday and talked for 15 minutes. There's no reason for me to feel threatened; the phone company has had that information since the very beginning of telecommunications. It's not an invasion of privacy if there was nothing private to begin with.

I'm not throwing my hands in the air and saying "WTF!, let's just party!" As the citizens it's our job to police the police, but frankly I'm more frightened by the hysterics of people that can't distinguish between public and private and real and imaginary.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:30 PM   #37
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Likewise with the Government. We all expect them to protect all 'Mericans. We demand that they get their act together WAY more than every bad guy on the planet and thwart any terrorist efforts before the terrorists even make the plans.

But we're not willing to pay anything for this?
Quite to the contrary, We the People expect "the government" to pay us. (At least, that's my understanding of the situation at present.)
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:31 PM   #38
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I much more worried about the local police officer that feels he can **** all over your rights. Or the hippie that wants to take away my guns.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:58 PM   #39
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I much more worried about the local police officer that feels he can **** all over your rights. Or the hippie that wants to take away my guns.
Oh, absolutely. But these are tactical rather than strategic problems.

One cannot legislate away stupidity, petty malice, or bullies. These problems must be dealt with on an individual basis, and for this we have the municipal Superior Courts (the courts of original jurisdiction) of the states.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #40
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Quite to the contrary, We the People expect "the government" to pay us. (At least, that's my understanding of the situation at present.)
I expect the government to pay me, but no one else... provided it doesn't raise my taxes.
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