Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808352)
And here's another example that just hit me. I hear a lot of people saying we should privatize the post office. You know what? The Netherlands and several other countries did that.
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system. Oh wait -- it doesn't? |
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808353)
AND it requires constant cash infusions from the government just to stay solvent!
Oh wait -- it doesn't? What I do know is the privatized corporation is constantly in trouble with violating the terms they signed with the Dutch government over trying to constantly reduce deliverys/service areas/et al in violation of their contract w/the government - even though they are making a hefty profit as is. |
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808346)
lulz at that PDF. Some of the section headings:
The Public Will Not Receive Full Value Private Companies Often Engage in Risky Financial Schemes The Public Will Not Receive Full Value Inadequate Oversight Exists to Ensure the Public Interest is Protected Good thing these problems don't exist with public spending.
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808352)
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
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Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808354)
I don't know if the Dutch system required that originally, sorry. I do know it had significant differences from our system.
What I do know is the privatized corporation is constantly in trouble with violating the terms they signed with the Dutch government over trying to constantly reduce deliverys/service areas/et al in violation of their contract w/the government - even though they are making a hefty profit as is. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 808364)
That actually seems to be "the free market" saying that the old system probably wasn't cost effective at its former size and that most users probably aren't willing to pay the price necessary to operate at higher levels of service.
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808365)
Sounds terrible. Can you imagine the mess we'd have if we allowed private companies to handle important stuff like air and ground shipping directly with consumers?
My argument against privatization involves monopoly or oligopoly situations. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 808364)
This is the binary thinking I often reference. If someone says "private sector spending can have significant corruption, waste and inefficiencies," it is not the same as saying "public sector spending is always (or even mostly) free of significant corruption, waste and inefficiencies."
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im loling at oversight.
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808370)
No, I'm not really arguing that either could be free of those things -- but it's only through government authority that corruption, waste, and inefficiency is rewarded rather than punished.
If you can figure out a way to have privatization of roads with significant competition, I'm all ears. |
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808372)
You also see these in excess in monopoly or oligopoly situations Mg.
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808374)
...which arise when government policies favor certain groups to the detriment of others.
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By the way, I don't have to "figure out" how to have competition in the market. The market produces it -- if profits are available, individuals and companies will compete.
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees? |
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808376)
Untrue. There are numerous monopolies and oligopolies that have arisen independent of the government. Microsoft is a great example of this, complete with abusive behavior, corruption, et al that you are complaining about in the 90s.
Microsoft was a monopoly? |
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808377)
By the way, I don't have to "figure out" how to have competition in the market. The market produces it -- if profits are available, individuals and companies will compete.
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees? What is your proposal to make them a place where competition can exist, and competing companies can all strive to bring a better product to a consumer? This is where I don't "grok" what you are trying to say. It's one of the major disconnects I see with Block. I find it extremely unrealistic to have, say, 3 highways right next to each other that can compete with each other. But, and I am certain you have driven at least as much as I have on our roads, in many cases there is only one or two viable routes to a place that isn't seriously contrived. How do you propose to address this? Cliffs: My argument against privatization is against monopolistic and oligopolistic behavior |
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 808378)
:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:
Microsoft was a monopoly? |
Just got home from work. Going to keep this short because I'm dying to take a hot shower. Today was fucking blistering cold where I was working and I smashed my pinky finger in the rebar cutter. Thankfully no more than a bruised fingernail, but the cold made it throb like a bitch all day. lol
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with. You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job? Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually. I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on. I await your response. |
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808352)
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system. Bob |
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede
(Post 808398)
Just got home from work. Going to keep this short because I'm dying to take a hot shower. Today was fucking blistering cold where I was working and I smashed my pinky finger in the rebar cutter. Thankfully no more than a bruised fingernail, but the cold made it throb like a bitch all day. lol
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with. You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job? Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually. I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on. I await your response. What I don't understand is what it has to do with my base argument ("The highways would have not been built without federal funding"), and as a result, the benefit to the US as you said you are only arguing with the OP in this post.
Originally Posted by bbundy
(Post 808399)
Didn’t realize they did that. Maybe that explains why when I ordered something from Holland in 2008 it took 4 days to arrive at my door and the tracking worked the whole time. Ordered the same thing this year and it took 4 weeks and disappeared from tracking in the transfer to USP. I thought it was lost but they wouldn’t allow me to file anything saying I didn’t get my package for 30 days.
Bob P.S. Going back to the Netherlands and Germany in February. I'll be able to get more feedback on it then and see if it's improved or not in their perception. |
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 808352)
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
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Originally Posted by Oscar
(Post 808404)
What do you actually know about Dutchland? Have you lived here?
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