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In Soviet Florida, History Writes You.
In Florida, the new state exit exams require "education workers" (the term teacher is no longer PC) are legally bound to
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Those look more like points of discussion to me, it doesn't appear (on the surface anyway) to be the indoctrination of a viewpoint.
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Gotta love the great (dumb) state of Florida!
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So now we are angry that they are teaching kids things. I know you are a pretty right wing guy brain, but this stuff seems neutral to me.
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Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 730895)
So now we are angry that they are teaching kids things. I know you are a pretty right wing guy brain, but this stuff seems neutral to me.
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We aren't imperial
we aren't proliferating nukes no one should care about the black power movement kids shouldn't learn about pro life or pro choice we should be teaching kids why there have been wars, not why we should be giving obama the warlord a peace award. fuck the league of nations. |
Agreed, but we sure as hell act like it
We invented the fucking things Black people do, white people should Ignoring it won't make it go away. Do we leave it up to the parents? then they only hear one side of the argument and nothing changes. They didn't mention Obama, you did. Not constantly fighting wars (you know like imperialist nations do) is not a bad thing fuck kittens too |
Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 730918)
Agreed, but we sure as hell act like it
Empire means conquer and keep. While we still (unfortunately) own Puerto Rico, we do not own Japan, Germany, Italy, Austria, et al. We are trying like hell to responsibly leave Iraq and Crapstanastan without owning them. See British Empire. We invented the fucking things And have a mere fraction of the number we once had. See definition of proliferation. Black people do, white people should White Power = Subjugate or kill darkie; Black Power = Subjugate or kill whitey. What might be more important historically would be the pursuit by peaceful means of equal rights for all and not the subjugation of anyone on either side. It might also be good for the little students to learn about the Democrat Party in congress vehemently opposing equal rights for blacks, which was being pushed for by the Republican Party (they usually omit a crucial detail or two when discussing this). Ignoring it won't make it go away. Do we leave it up to the parents? then they only hear one side of the argument and nothing changes. I agree with you on this. Children belong to The State and not their respective parents. Breeders of children cannot be trusted to teach them values that are important to The State. They didn't mention Obama, you did. Not constantly fighting wars (you know like imperialist nations do) is not a bad thing I actually would like to have the children expound on the excruciating lengths we have gone to in preventing conflict in shitholes like the Middle East at great personal expense to millions of Americans. See Israeli peace process. fuck kittens too That's just nasty. The League of Nations was a clusterfuck because it was conceived in arrogance by a pointy-headed, I-know-better-than-you academic named Woodrow. His intent was to develop a better way of coercing other countries to do America's (his) bidding. It didn't work out because leaders always act in their own best interest and not on the say-so of some other douchebag leader. It is like herding cats. |
Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 730918)
fuck the consitution too
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Sorry guys I thought we were talking about the real world. You only seem to be interested in taking everything to the absolute extreme. I am sure you are all right, you should pull your kids out of school, an educated populace is the last thing we need. Everyone knows the more education a person has the greater the chance they will be liberal, a democrat, and an athiest. I believe conservatives call them "acedemics" or the "intellectual elite".
You know what, having written that out I realize now that from your perspective educated people are the opposition. That being the case, I give up. I understand why you are upset. Carry on |
extremes? really?
public schools aren't educating children anymore that's the problem. the dumber you are, the less you want, the easier to control. the more educated a person is, the greater the chance he will make a determination that he/she is a libertarian, conservative, liberal, democrat, etc. without being told that he/she is a libertarian, conservative, liberal, democrat, etc. Why do children have to examine the failure to support the LON? Why can't they examine the why the progressive movement failed in securing a spot in the LON? or simply, examine the LON after WWI? Why was the nuclear technology "proliferation" contriversial? Why do you need to learn key figures in a racist movement? If you promote one view point of a topic, how is that teaching? that's propaganda...something Hilter loved. These last two points are about teaching the kids to accept "world governance" as the only means to prevent war. The league of nations failed because Americans did not want an unelected international body ruling over their daily lives. They did not want internationalism or to be "controlled". We have a constitution, hence my comment. |
Nuclear proliferation was controversial because we had mutual assured destruction a few times over. It was saber rattling, and it was expensive. Hawks wanted more, doves wanted it to stop. Ultimately it was viewed as a waste of time and money by all involved and we are now scaling back. Nobody said it was happening anymore. But back in the 80's is was a much talked about topic, a controversy you might say. A bit like the current wars.
We need to teach the story of the black panthers for the same reason we need to teach the story of the KKK. As a people we learn from our mistakes, to forget them is to repeat them. A militant resistance movement at the tail end of a very long history in this country of slavery, then segregation, and (at the time of the B.P.) acceptable racism, is a subject that should be understood. To be honest, I am sick to death of hearing about it, but I am glad I know. And for the record they were a small group that did little more than yell alot and become the scapegoat for anarchists. The hells angels were a much more dangerous group. So probably not worth spending more than a day talking about them, but worth mentioning. You guys are looking for a reason to feel attacked here. I will concede that the word "failed" gives the bullet point about the LON a negative or anti american feel. A better word would be "refusal". but in either case, kids should leave school knowing about it. And every other point in that list. The rest of them don't seem to have a political lean to either side. This is stuff any voting American should know about. Thats what school is for. I wish they taught this stuff when I was in school. We learned up to 1920 or so and that was it, I would bet anyone on this forum over 30 would say the same thing. Its about damned time they taught stuff that defined the modern world and not the romans and the war of the roses. |
News flash: all learning is biased depending on what the teachers prefer to teach and what the learners desire to learn.
I know a lot about 'western' white males. The problem with modern education is it's lack of practical skill teaching. Your quips are rather petty if you bother to zoom out. -Zach |
LOL @ his location.
I don't think Blaize has the cultural perspective to understand the degree of slant present in those guidelines. They clearly espouse a political ideology with which a large proportion of the US populace would disagree (and rightfully so). ...or he could just be a troll. |
We should teach kids the history of unions.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 731220)
We should teach kids the history of unions.
I agree with Blaize about learning everything you can, and I think we all feel that learning as much as possible about everything is generally good. I think the rift develops when, much like in journalism, certain things are mentioned and certain things are left out. That is the single largest problem I have with the unionized labor force that educates government school children. The second would be with their overwhelming ineptitude... |
I am American, from New Orleans, moved to England a couple of years after Katrina. My fathers side of the family is from Florida so I have a deep understanding of the cultural nuances in that area. I am also aware of the assumption that schoolteachers are all hippy treehuggers (though the recent trendy conservative opinion that they are overpaid union members is frankly hilarious given what the status of teacher pay was 3.5 years ago when I left) And I wholeheartedly agree that practical skills should form a much larger part of US education curriculum, but thats not what we are debating here.
5 years ago I would have agreed with just about everything Brain says in the politics section. Living outside the US changes your perspective. Mind you its nowhere near as cosmopolitan as Kansas. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 731220)
We should teach kids the history of unions.
"kids shouldn't learn about pro life or pro choice we should be teaching kids why there have been wars, not why we should be giving obama the warlord a peace award." -Braineack About pro life/choice, an open discussion must take place in order to form a well rounded opinion. Listening to the viewpoints of others gives a person insight that he or she otherwise would not have. We should learn more about wars, I had a Modern Terrorism class in HS where a girl thought WW2 was in the 70's. To be fair she was about 10 IQ points from being retarded, so it wasn't really the systems fault, she was just stupid. About the "giving obama the warlord a peace award" part, Obama didn't ask for the goddamn Nobel Peace Prize, it was given to him. Also, how exactly is he a "warlord"? |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 731028)
The League of Nations was a clusterfuck because it was conceived in arrogance by a pointy-headed, I-know-better-than-you academic named Woodrow. His intent was to develop a better way of coercing other countries to do America's (his) bidding. It didn't work out because leaders always act in their own best interest and not on the say-so of some other douchebag leader. It is like herding cats. |
And just to be clear - this country is imperialistic in the views of the rest of the world. We may not have 'colonies' but the sun never sets on our military bases. Granted, there is a definitive difference between true 19th century imperialism and the military actions of the US, however, it's a bit grey.
Zach |
Originally Posted by soflarick
(Post 731249)
Ever ponder that because of Wilson's arrogance, he was a force which led to Germany's meltdown, which then led to the rise of Hitler, which led to WWII, which led to the murder of millions of humans. So I hypothesize that Wilson caused the murder of millions of people.
I've heard a case being made that the invention of the telegraph was a contributing factor to the start and severity of the American Civil War. |
Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 731177)
Everyone knows the more education a person has the greater the chance they will be liberal, a democrat, and an athiest.
Many liberals (especially those in the US pushing a socialist agenda) seem to have not paid much attention in history class or, at the least, do not see the fallacy of letting a bigger government control everything. www.lp.org |
I didn\'t say they were interconnected, but study after study has shown, that speaking by the numbers, the more education a person has the more likely they will fall into those three groups. |
I had a whole response composed, then realized your statement would require pages of response to describe how wrong your statement is. That is such a stereotypical statement parroted by the sheeple following msnbc.
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Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 731363)
I didn\'t say they were interconnected, but study after study has shown, that speaking by the numbers, the more education a person has the more likely they will fall into those three groups. I propose that academics under report on matters of faith due to this perceived stigma. I also propose that a super-majority of doctorate and post-doctorate level individuals in this country and across the world self-identify as believers in a god. Additionally, those who tend to research trends showing a reduced self-reporting of belief might themselves have a drum to beat. An interesting book exploring a balance of questions from both sides of the religious versus empirical arguments is The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. It isn't a dry book, I promise . |
Originally Posted by Blaize
(Post 731205)
Nuclear proliferation was controversial because we had mutual assured destruction a few times over. It was saber rattling, and it was expensive. Hawks wanted more, doves wanted it to stop. Ultimately it was viewed as a waste of time and money by all involved and we are now scaling back. Nobody said it was happening anymore. But back in the 80's is was a much talked about topic, a controversy you might say. A bit like the current wars.
We need to teach the story of the black panthers for the same reason we need to teach the story of the KKK. And every other point in that list. The rest of them don't seem to have a political lean to either side. 5 years ago I would have agreed with just about everything Brain says in the politics section. Living outside the US changes your perspective. Mind you its nowhere near as cosmopolitan as Kansas.
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318
(Post 731243)
I got taught the history of unions, that's why I realize why there needed.
Read what what is happening to Beoing out in South Carolina and tell me we still need Unions. Read quotes like this "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren." from the President of the American Federation of Teachers and tell me we still need unions. Don't just tell kids to read the Jungle and leave it at that. Do you honestly think that unions are doing any good for anyone right now? How about this, some parents want to choose to let their children attend charter schools. At first the unions tried to prevent the formation of charter schools. That didn’t work, so now they are trying to infiltrate and destroy them from within.
Originally Posted by United Federation of Teachers Vice President Leo Casey
“If we do not figure out how to organize charter schools and if we are not successful in doing that, we will end up in the same place as the auto workers. So there is no more key question before us as a union and a broader labor movement with regard to education than how we approach charter schools and our ability to organize them.”
Originally Posted by Detroit Federation of Teachers President Keith Johnson
“Most important of all, organizing charters will strengthen our power and influence as a union. It is reasonable to believe that as more charters are faced with having to be more like traditional public schools in terms of accountability, wages and benefits, due process, and paying into the retirement system, many of them will dry up because now they will not be as profitable, thus not as appealing to those seeking to authorize them.”
The United Federation of Teachers filed a lawsuit on Wednesday in an effort to halt two tools the city’s Education Department uses to change the school system: closing schools for poor performance and giving charter schools space in buildings occupied by traditional public schools. About pro life/choice, an open discussion must take place in order to form a well rounded opinion. Listening to the viewpoints of others gives a person insight that he or she otherwise would not have. I'm 28 years old and I have no idea what to think on the topic. I don't like how easy it is to get an abortion in this country and the lengths that organizations will do to help kids do it behind the backs of parents. All while holding that banner of reproductive rights. But this bullet was where I had the least concern really. We should learn more about wars, I had a Modern Terrorism class in HS where a girl thought WW2 was in the 70's. To be fair she was about 10 IQ points from being retarded, so it wasn't really the systems fault, she was just stupid. I didn\'t say they were interconnected, but study after study has shown, that speaking by the numbers, the more education a person has the more likely they will fall into those three groups. You are also forgetting that High School Dropouts are overwhelmingly democrats. Lets take a look at some 2006 exit polls. Source: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pag.../epolls.0.html TOTAL...................Democrat........Republican No High School (3%)64%...............35% H.S. Graduate (21%)55%...............44% Some College (31%)51%...............47% College Graduate (27%)49%..........49% Postgraduate (18%)58%................41% If you break it up by wealth, it looks like Democrats win the poorest, with the Republicans all over the middle ground, and pretty much even above 75K. So therefore study after study shows that the stupider and poorer you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Democrat. How about that? I would like to say that of all my threads here in this section, this is the one I have least care for. |
Originally Posted by kotomile
(Post 728859)
Those look more like points of discussion to me, it doesn't appear (on the surface anyway) to be the indoctrination of a viewpoint.
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"When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren." from the President of the American Federation of Teachers and tell me we still need unions.
His job is to represent teachers, not students. There a a ton of other people who's job it is to do that. It may not sound very nice on paper, poor little school children and all that, but someone has to look out for the teachers and he is that guy. And regarding the voter numbers list, while I agree that Dems are the runaway favorite of the 3 percent of people who have not finished high school. They also have a commanding lead for the 18 percent of voters who have a masters. Looks like we are both right. and I totally agree brain, I am sick of this thread too |
I am a teacher. I do not like how certain things are stated.
But brain you need to find the teaching specific teaching standards for particular grade levels before you can talk. That is just a list of "what the student" can discuss on an end of year exam. It does not mean that is what is "meant" to be taught. It is like saying "The student will be able to explain how to turbo a miata" While the subsection might say 1.1 Discuss power goals 1.2 Basics of ECU's 1.3 Difference between cast and tubular manifolds 1.4 Difference between bar and plate/ tube fin I/C What is discussed in the course can play a big role in changing how the meaning of "what the student should be able to discus" reads out. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 731398)
But kids aren't required by law to learn the key figures in the white power movement. Why couldn't it be limited to the Civil Rights Movement?
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in soviet america we call them molotov cocktails.
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In Soviet D-Wave, zero divides by you.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 734127)
In Soviet D-Wave, zero divides by you.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 734057)
in soviet america we call them molotov cocktails.
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau
(Post 734131)
So now these threads are entangled?
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below are quotes of advice from teachers to new teachers:
For much of the time I was in my teacher certification program I was adamant about textbooks being the enemy of progressive education. All I could think about were the static kinds of delivery they seemed to offer and the misinformation many presented. But there's only so much you can do or expect yourself be able to do during your first years of teaching. In content areas where I felt the strongest, I tried out many different ideas and did my best to be creative. But in areas where I felt a lot more challenged, I stuck real close to those textbooks. This helped me gain a better grip on the curriculum as well as understand how students grasp ideas and learn. Then, I was better able to slowly move away from the textbooks and create more of my own curriculum. ...Much of my first year of teaching was spent trying to bring together the world of my political activism and passion for equity and justice... Teach the kind of skills they will need to overcome injustice themselves...Wherever you are, fight for equity and justice, whatever that means at your school. For me, that meant trying to end tracking, opening the canon - and also smaller things like keeping the computer lab open after school. If there's a marginalized group, find a way to create a safe place for them and be their advocate in faculty as well as district and state level meetings. Establish safe places for students. Volunteer to advise gay, lesbian, and straight clubs; support student culture groups. ...And no matter what materials you're given, find a way to create social-justice units out of them...Teach students the tools for organizing so that when you're teaching units, you're teaching them the kinds of skills they will need to overcome injustice themselves. Equity and justice must come to life within your classroom. It is in your classroom that students will experience the world, a world that opens possibilities for their developing hearts and minds. I've been looking at education as a system that is racist and classist and that sometimes hurts children and families. As a teacher you are part of the system and you have to figure out a way not to participate in the hurtful aspects of that system. ... I didn't know how to respond to the things I was being asked to do - regular things like how to deal with standardized tests or whether I should follow specific testprep curriculum that I was being asked to use. I got the message that I was supposed to follow along and not question whether those kinds of things really work for kids. ...I think teachers can be agents of change and we shouldn't accept the idea that we don't have the power to do anything in the situation. Even if you don't see yourself as a political person or someone with control over what you're doing, in reality, you're making thousands of political decisions everyday. We also have to have a global perspective. We work in the biggest superpower on the planet - some call it the "belly of the monster." Given increased global inequality, global warming and poverty, the devastation of mother earth, and the fact that the "ecological footprint" of the people in this country is larger than anywhere else, we have responsibilities to address that. We need to teach for global justice. And if we don't, who will? We also need to be recognize that all teaching is political, whether we're conscious of it or not. We all make political decisions every day in the classroom. If we decide to put up a Halloween bulletin board instead of a bulletin board that indicts Christopher Columbus for being a war criminal, that's a political decision. If we decide to make Valentine's Day hearts with kids instead of celebrating Black History Month, that's a political decision. And it's okay to do some of those things - I'm not against Halloween or hearts, although I oppose a holiday-driven curriculum - but we should do things self-consciously and recognize the political nature of our work. I bet I could get an A in math in one of the above k-12 classrooms...I can see it now: Q: If the evil logging companies cut down 20,000 old growth trees out of a forrest of 30,000, how does that make you FEEL? |
She is making it us look bad.
AS a teacher I try stay as neutral as possible. My job is not to show kids the right or the left. My job is to make them informed citizens that lets them make educated choices on their own. |
those are five different teacher's quotes.
the first, quote being that of a 3RD grade teacher! |
I guess it doesn't even matter anymore when this is what our gov't thinks about test scores:
The Dayton Police Department is lowering its testing standards for recruits. It’s a move required by the U.S. Department of Justice after it says not enough African-Americans passed the exam. Dayton is in desperate need of officers to replace dozens of retirees. The hiring process was postponed for months because the D.O.J. rejected the original scores provided by the Dayton Civil Service Board, which administers the test. Under the previous requirements, candidates had to get a 66% on part one of the exam and a 72% on part two. The D.O.J. approved new scoring policy only requires potential police officers to get a 58% and a 63%. That’s the equivalent of an ‘F’ and a ‘D’. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 736404)
I guess it doesn't even matter anymore when this is what our gov't thinks about test scores:
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