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Braineack 11-07-2011 12:17 PM

Tax the Rich
 
We have shit to pay for:

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/inde...ashingtonwaste

hustler 11-07-2011 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 792973)

But but but Bush!!!

Faeflora 11-07-2011 11:35 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 792973)

FUUUU fu fu fu FUUUCK YEAHHHHH

Wait. That's only 590M. That's nothing.

BTW Scott my party invite to you was sincere. There will actually be a bunch of gearheads in attendance.

Enginerd 11-07-2011 11:43 PM

sssssssssaQQQQXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


Sorry...the cat typed that message above.

Luxury taxes on discretionary spending are more justifiable than increases on taxes on fixed sources (capital gains for the rich, transportation fees for the workin' man). Pay for shit with other shit spending!

Braineack 11-08-2011 07:43 AM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 793215)
FUUUU fu fu fu FUUUCK YEAHHHHH

Wait. That's only 590M. That's nothing.

BTW Scott my party invite to you was sincere. There will actually be a bunch of gearheads in attendance.


that was only one day's posting worth.

He updates about once a week, for the month of Oct he identifies a few billion in pork.

ThatGuy85 11-08-2011 01:55 PM

I'm in full support of searching for alien cities..

Stealth97 11-08-2011 10:30 PM

I think that the rich need to pay up.. but I also think this kind of spending has to stop.

They are the ones that pay the lobbyists and manipulate the system. Our situation is not the poor mans fault

Seefo 11-08-2011 10:34 PM

^and its not the rich man's fault either. Its the governments fault. And no, we do not need make the rich "pay up" what the fuck did they do? be smart? be financially savvy? get off your high horse.

Enginerd 11-08-2011 10:36 PM

True. But the poor man pays nothing.

Stein 11-08-2011 11:41 PM


Originally Posted by cymx5 (Post 793630)
True. But the poor man pays nothing.

And that is bullshit. If the poor guy had to at least pay a little he would have to start paying attention to what is going on around him.

Enginerd 11-09-2011 12:12 AM

http://www.urban.org/uploadedpdf/100...Income-Tax.pdf


About 46 percent of American households will pay no federal individual income tax in 2011, roughly half of them because of structural features of the income tax that provide basic exemptions for subsistence level income and for dependents. The other half are nontaxable because tax expenditures— special provisions of the tax code that benefit selected taxpayers or activities—wipe out tax liabilities and, in the case of refundable credits, result in net payments from the government. Most important of those tax expenditures are provisions that benefit senior citizens and low-income working families with children. While those factors particularly affect lower-income households, different provisions eliminate taxes for other households. Itemized deductions and credits for children and education are more important for middle-income households, while the relatively few high-income nontaxable households benefit most from above-the-line and itemized deductions and reduced tax rates on capital gains and dividends.
Why Some Tax Units Pay No Income Tax


Just 54 percent of all tax units will pay federal individual income tax in 2011, leaving about 46 percent paying no federal income tax or receiving a net refund. The significant fraction of tax units that do not pay income tax has become a topic of public debate. Some commentators have suggested that the large share paying no income tax is mostly the result of tax expenditures (sometimes referred to as “loopholes” or “tax earmarks”). If that were so, nearly all tax units would pay income tax under a reformed income tax with no tax expenditures. In fact, however, even with all tax expenditures repealed, standard income tax provisions that exempt a basic amount of income would still leave many units nontaxable.

Give birth to 4 illegitimate children and work at Walmart = free money from tax codes.
Go to college and get an average job and have 2 beautiful children = get screwed by tax codes.
Go to college, go to grad school, get job with responsibility & liability for multi-million to multi-billion dollar projects and hundreds to thousands of employees, have large family and multiple divorces = free money for the single mom and fatty paychecks for dad for knowing how to work the tax codes.

Seefo 11-09-2011 07:32 AM

Exactly, deregulate the market, overhaul the tax code, bring private jobs back to the market.

tax hike is not the answer, it hasn't been before, it won't be now.

Braineack 11-09-2011 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by Stealth97 (Post 793626)
I think that the rich need to pay up...

why do they need to "pay up?"

Braineack 11-09-2011 08:43 AM

In today's news:


President Obama’s Agriculture Department today announced that it will impose a new 15-cent charge on all fresh Christmas trees—the Christmas Tree Tax—to support a new Federal program to improve the image and marketing of Christmas trees.

:facepalm:

In the Federal Register of November 8, 2011, Acting Administrator of Agricultural Marketing David R. Shipman announced that the Secretary of Agriculture will appoint a Christmas Tree Promotion Board. The purpose of the Board is to run a “program of promotion, research, evaluation, and information designed to strengthen the Christmas tree industry’s position in the marketplace; maintain and expend existing markets for Christmas trees; and to carry out programs, plans, and projects designed to provide maximum benefits to the Christmas tree industry” (7 CFR 1214.46(n)). And the program of “information” is to include efforts to “enhance the image of Christmas trees and the Christmas tree industry in the United States” (7 CFR 1214.10).

To pay for the new Federal Christmas tree image improvement and marketing program, the Department of Agriculture imposed a 15-cent fee on all sales of fresh Christmas trees by sellers of more than 500 trees per year (7 CFR 1214.52). And, of course, the Christmas tree sellers are free to pass along the 15-cent Federal fee to consumers who buy their Christmas trees.

Acting Administrator Shipman had the temerity to say the 15-cent mandatory Christmas tree fee “is not a tax nor does it yield revenue for the Federal government” (76 CFR 69102). The Federal government mandates that the Christmas tree sellers pay the 15-cents per tree, whether they want to or not. The Federal government directs that the revenue generated by the 15-cent fee goes to the Board appointed by the Secretary of Agriculture to carry out the Christmas tree program established by the Secretary of Agriculture. Mr. President, that’s a new 15-cent tax to pay for a Federal program to improve the image and marketing of Christmas trees.

Nobody is saying President Obama doesn’t have authority to impose his new Christmas Tree Tax — his Administration cites the Commodity Promotion, Research and Information Act of 1996. Just because the Obama Administration has the legal power to impose its Christmas Tree Tax doesn’t mean it should do so.

The economy is barely growing and nine percent of the American people have no jobs. Is a new tax on Christmas trees the best President Obama can do?


bbundy 11-09-2011 07:52 PM

I think this does a pretty good job of describing what has happened to our tax code.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-rich-20111109

And don’t forget all portions of payroll tax which are conveniently ignored by right wingers when calculating a person’s personal tax burden. It makes up ~40% of the federal revenue and it’s ~15% of income for everybody making less than 100k from working and no deductions.

Bob

midpack 11-09-2011 09:57 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 792973)
Tax the Rich Corporations

ftfy

30 Corporations Paying No Total Income Tax in 2008-201
78 Companies Paying Zero Tax or Less in at Least One Year, 2008–2010
25 Companies with the Largest Total Tax Subsidies, 2008-10: $114,815,000,000

http://i43.tinypic.com/25in2pd.jpg

Accelerated depreciation. The tax laws generally allow companies to write off their capital investments considerably faster than the assets actually wear out. This “accelerated depreciation” is technically a tax deferral, but so long as a company continues to invest, the tax deferral tends to be indefinite.

In early 2008, in an attempt at economic stimulus for the flagging economy, Congress and President George W. Bush dramatically expanded these depreciation tax breaks by creating a supposedly temporary “50% bonus depreciation” provision that allowed companies to immediately write off as much as 75 percent of the cost of their investments in new equipment right away.

This provision was extended and expanded through 2012 under President Barack Obama.

http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodge...gersReport.pdf

Braineack 11-09-2011 10:00 PM

the point of my post is that we don't need the revenue.

midpack 11-09-2011 10:20 PM

I fully expect some of what the .gov does to fail and "waste" tax money, it's the price of trying new things and innovating. Would ARPANET have landed on a pork report? One man's pork is another's required expenditure.

Then again, I think we should be spending money on developing new technologies, going back in space and finding aliens. Unfortunately private industry has figured out how to do it cheaper by outsourcing to other countries with cheap labor and the bitching about how their patents are infringed.

Braineack 11-10-2011 07:30 AM

some?

it's the price of the gov't trying to innovate and trying new things.

I take this as a simple example: Monster.com.

For the longest while, they were the gov't's main engine for their USAjobs.gov site, but the gov't decided to take over and thought it could do it better than monster. Go google it and see how well it's working.

the gov't innovating is by making tungsten illegal or requiring all tv's to be digital regardless of how shitty it makes them.

private industry is forced to find cheaper labor in competing countries because our own gov't has ruined the business environment here in the states. let's just say they are innovating new jobs for the Chinese youth.

I still can't wait to fly into St. Cloud Regional Airport...

midpack 11-10-2011 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 794069)
some?

it's the price of the gov't trying to innovate and trying new things.

I take this as a simple example: Monster.com.

For the longest while, they were the gov't's main engine for their USAjobs.gov site, but the gov't decided to take over and thought it could do it better than monster. Go google it and see how well it's working.

That's funny and sad because a tiny part of that $90million is mine. When the public company I work for needs to fill a job it gets posted on just about every job search site, Craigslist and sent out to the many recruiters we work with. Having a single source is stupid.


the gov't innovating is by making tungsten illegal or requiring all tv's to be digital regardless of how shitty it makes them.
Do you know the why behind ditching analog broadcast TV? Digital is the future and is a far more efficient use of finite resources. I'm really torn about the environmental impacts of mining and industrial operations (that's what you're refering to with tungsten, right?). There has to be some restrictions or greed and the desire for cheap products will destroy the planet we depend upon. Corporate responsibility doesn't exist so we come up with stupid blanket laws that are just as bad as none.


private industry is forced to find cheaper labor in competing countries because our own gov't has ruined the business environment here in the states. let's just say they are innovating new jobs for the Chinese youth.
Should we impose a labor rate or environmental impact based tax on imported goods? Either you pay Chinese kids US labor rates (those are going to be some wealthy kids) or pay import taxes based on the discrepancy. Adopt US environmental protection levels or pay import taxes based on how badly you're fucking the environment vs what is allowed here. Should we extend that regionally in this country too? Afterall it's much cheaper to grow/build/develop/code/support/etc everything in the mid-west than it is on the coasts. Fuck those job stealing midwesterners.


I still can't wait to fly into St. Cloud Regional Airport...
Fuck your pork, I mean airport.
I can't wait for Amtrak to bring their auto transport services to me. I'd very much like to load the MSM on a train and relax as I'm shuttled across the country to some kick ass roads and sweet tracks. Would make for some fantastic vacations.

Reverant 11-10-2011 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by midpack (Post 794176)
Do you know the why behind ditching analog broadcast TV? Digital is the future and is a far more efficient use of finite resources.

While I am all for digital, there was huge lobbying back in the day from broadcasters and studios. They wanted all broadcasting to switch to digital and encrypted. Only "certified" TVs would be able to decrypt the broadcasts, and this watch, to rule out any TiVO (or any DVRs) that can let you record movies (buy that $29.95 DVD!) or auto-skip commercials.

Braineack 11-10-2011 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by midpack (Post 794176)
That's funny and sad because a tiny part of that $90million is mine. When the public company I work for needs to fill a job it gets posted on just about every job search site, Craigslist and sent out to the many recruiters we work with. Having a single source is stupid.

it's just an example I deal with. the OPM decided they could do a better job than monster.com and it's negatively impacting our performance.


Do you know the why behind ditching analog broadcast TV? Digital is the future and is a far more efficient use of finite resources.
of course it is, but did we need the fed gov't to come in and say by X date you have to produced Y product? If the market was already heading in that direction, why force it? I can no longer just hook an old TV into the wall and get some basic cable. the market was flooded with $500 7" lcd screens that had the picture quality of a turd smear. Even now, my TV looks like shit, the compression ratio on the signals is retarded. You can flip the channels anymore. I can go on and on with the downsides.

Analog was always going to be ditched, so why stick your nose into it and cause trouble?

And dont get me started on toliets that can't handle my shit...another brillant gov't innovation.


I'm really torn about the environmental impacts of mining and industrial operations (that's what you're refering to with tungsten, right?).
There has to be some restrictions or greed and the desire for cheap products will destroy the planet we depend upon. Corporate responsibility doesn't exist so we come up with stupid blanket laws that are just as bad as none.
The only reason this law was passed is so GE could get rich selling $50 light bulbs. The fact that there's some sort of benefit to the enviroment...like disposing of mercury in landfills, is only an easy selling point. :facepalm:

The technology isn't there yet; I hate LED, Halogen, and Flurencent bulbs -- I prefer candlelight to those POS bulbs...which frankly is about all the lumens they can output. And now, I can no longer buy the bulbs I like and enjoyed I've honestly looked into alternative sources to get some of the bulbs I used to buy. I've stocked up on 150 watt Revel type-A bulbs because those are no longer sold in store. It's retarded, and again, the market was already going in that direction.


Should we impose a labor rate or environmental impact based tax on imported goods?
no.


Either you pay Chinese kids US labor rates (those are going to be some wealthy kids) or pay import taxes based on the discrepancy.
how about the business man pays his employee whatever they agree on?


Adopt US environmental protection levels or pay import taxes based on how badly you're fucking the environment vs what is allowed here. Should we extend that regionally in this country too? Afterall it's much cheaper to grow/build/develop/code/support/etc everything in the mid-west than it is on the coasts. Fuck those job stealing midwesterners.
Ok Al Gore...


Fuck your pork, I mean airport.
Did you google it? That's your gov't innovation. They received $5 million in stimulous money in 2009, built this an extravagant terminal which hasn't been used. Now they are getting an additional $750,000 for a nice boost in innovation.

grants and substidies do not equal innovation. they equal waste and lost opportunities for real innovation and advancement.


I can't wait for Amtrak to bring their auto transport services to me. I'd very much like to load the MSM on a train and relax as I'm shuttled across the country to some kick ass roads and sweet tracks. Would make for some fantastic vacations.
why can't a private company do this? they better, cheaper, and make a profit...unlike Amtrak that operates at a huge loss and it only in business because we prop it up.

Braineack 11-10-2011 12:48 PM

Timely reading on FDA innovation:


Recently, there have been shortages of some medicines. Cancer patients can’t get drugs they need.

Why not?

One reason is that a big drugmaker shut down for a year in part to meet Food and Drug Administration rules. The FDA makes it so expensive and difficult to sell drugs that there isn’t an eager pack of companies rushing to the fill the gap.

…Does the FDA say it’s sorry for its part and back off? Of course not.

Regulators almost never do that.

In fact, the FDA wants more power. It wants to regulate how your doctor uses his smartphone.

I’m not kidding!

The FDA wants the power to approve mobile medical apps that let doctors monitor patients’ vital signs over their phones. As one doctor put it, “Even though I’m away from the hospital, I can still look at … real-time wave form data just as if I were at the patient’s bedside.”

Sounds great. It makes doctors more efficient.

But the FDA basically says, “No, you just can’t put something on your phone if it’s a medical device. What if it doesn’t work right? We have to approve it first.” …what’s the harm in running apps past the regulators?

…There’s a big cost to the public when companies submit applications and then wait years for FDA approval. “We’re losing time, precious time that lives are dependent upon,” Emord said. “MIM Software developed a simple mobile device that would combine MRI images, PET scans, CAT scans all together and produce a super image that was better for diagnosis … right on your phone. To get that through the agency, it took two and a half years and cost some hundreds of thousands of dollars. All the while it could have been in use, and ultimately it was approved.”

Lawyers and reporters encourage bureaucrats to move slowly. If something goes wrong, the media make a huge fuss about it, and the class-action parasites pounce. But when the FDA delays a device for years and people die, we don’t report that.

We don’t even know who the victims are.

Useful HIV drugs were available in Europe for years before the FDA approved them for use here. A doctor at the Cleveland Clinic invented a medical app that helped physicians calibrate the amount of radiation to give to women with breast cancer. The FDA demanded so much extra and expensive proof of its safety that he abandoned it.

The FDA’s caution leads many companies to just give up on potentially lifesaving ideas. Yet I don’t hear companies complaining. “If you raise your head above the parapet and you become vocal in your criticism, the FDA remembers like an elephant and will stamp you out of existence. They’ll punish you. It’s so much discretion in their hands. They sit like emperors reigning over this stuff.”


buffon01 11-10-2011 01:23 PM

Bureucracy at its best. Sad part is that if feels as if the snowball will keep rolling downhill and become bigger and bigger and bigger... :/

Seefo 11-10-2011 01:29 PM

haha, off topic from the economy:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ially-dead.ars

More places to spend copious amounts of government savings...oh...wait...there isn't any? That's ok, we will just add another tax in the name of security and protection.

Braineack 11-10-2011 01:31 PM

(Reuters) - Alabama's Jefferson County filed for bankruptcy court protection on Wednesday in the biggest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history.

Commissioners for the county, which is home to Birmingham, the state's biggest city and economic powerhouse, voted 4-1 to declare bankruptcy after meeting behind closed doors for two days in a last ditch-attempt to restructure its debt out of court.

A tentative deal reached with creditors in September to settle $3.14 billion in red ink had been widely expected to avert bankruptcy. But the deal fell apart over what the commission described as creditors' refusal to meet the terms of previously agreed economic concessions.

midpack 11-10-2011 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by Reverant (Post 794182)
While I am all for digital, there was huge lobbying back in the day from broadcasters and studios. They wanted all broadcasting to switch to digital and encrypted. Only "certified" TVs would be able to decrypt the broadcasts, and this watch, to rule out any TiVO (or any DVRs) that can let you record movies (buy that $29.95 DVD!) or auto-skip commercials.

Industry lobbying is nothing new, especially not from content producers. Despite the massive failure of CSS, the blue-ray spec has even more nonsense built in and just like CSS it's fairly easy to crack and watch the movie you paid for how you want. Every DVD I own was ripped with Handbrake and are easily watched with XBMC without annoying "unskipable" advertisements that some studio pocketed truckloads of cash to bombard me with. When an easy method comes out to rip blue-ray's, I'll do the same after sending the dudes at AnyDVD some more cash to enable HD disc decryption. Doesn't make them right for trying to force "protection" on broadcast TV and them trying to do so doesn't make digital broadcasting wrong. It just means geeks and those who are willing to make the effort will have a better viewing than those who do so more legitimately. It kills me, even after all this time MPAA/RIAA still don't get it.

midpack 11-10-2011 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 794196)
of course it is, but did we need the fed gov't to come in and say by X date you have to produced Y product? If the market was already heading in that direction, why force it?

Because the .gov regulates the spectrum and in order to free it for new uses there has to be a date where the old use is no longer acceptable.


I can no longer just hook an old TV into the wall and get some basic cable.
cable != broadcast, complain to your cable provider that you don't want more HD channels or more internet bandwidths. Analog on a cable network is a total hog, multiple digital HD channels fit in the spectrum used by just one analog SD channel.


You can flip the channels anymore. I can go on and on with the downsides.
My cable provider uses switched digital video for the less popular channels. It's far from perfect and absolutely sucks if you're a channel surfer. I'll take the ~2 second delay in channel changing to get more content in HD and more and faster internets.


Analog was always going to be ditched, so why stick your nose into it and cause trouble?
Isn't that what the .gov does best?


The only reason this law was passed is so GE could get rich selling $50 light bulbs. The fact that there's some sort of benefit to the enviroment...like disposing of mercury in landfills, is only an easy selling point. :facepalm:

The technology isn't there yet; I hate LED, Halogen, and Flurencent bulbs -- I prefer candlelight to those POS bulbs...which frankly is about all the lumens they can output. And now, I can no longer buy the bulbs I like and enjoyed I've honestly looked into alternative sources to get some of the bulbs I used to buy. I've stocked up on 150 watt Revel type-A bulbs because those are no longer sold in store. It's retarded, and again, the market was already going in that direction.
I'm not baller enough for LED lights, CFLs are garbage and in my house die quicker than incandescent and have to warm up. WTF? Never saw a difference on my electric bill either. Last pack of bulbs I bought were reliable ass incandescents, seriously I still have bulbs that were there when I moved in 8 years ago but CFLs get replaced multiple times since then.


Ok Al Gore...
I wish I could take credit for the internet


Did you google it? That's your gov't innovation. They received $5 million in stimulous money in 2009, built this an extravagant terminal which hasn't been used. Now they are getting an additional $750,000 for a nice boost in innovation.
No, I ran out of time and had to post & run. Sounds a bit like the STL international airport, build fancy new terminal, bulldoze lots of houses because the airport needs expansion...then TWA happened. So much money was wasted on one of the terminal windows that they can't afford to replace the glass a tornado blew out earlier this year. Millions of dollars for <20 pieces of glass.


why hasn't a private company done this? they better, cheaper, and make a profit
ftfy


unlike Amtrak that operates at a huge loss and it only in business because we prop it up.
Why do we prop up all the other transportation sectors but not trains? taxes pay for roads, airports, cars, jets, airline bailouts, auto maker bailouts. Oh that's right, we're building a high speed (by 1960's definition) line between STL & Chicago, except it stops outside of STL and isn't high speed because it still runs on the old freight tracks.:jerkit: A decent rail system needs it's own track system without grade crossings where the passenger cars don't stop so freight can go by.


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 794216)
(Reuters) - Alabama's Jefferson County filed for bankruptcy court protection on Wednesday in the biggest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history.

There are no words for this
:facepalm:

Enginerd 11-11-2011 10:44 PM

My biggest gripe about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is that signs were posted everywhere in Illinois bragging about how awesome it was for infrastructure. They started and have completed the majority of the highway rebuilding and resurfacing. The projects made absolutely no improvements in any road I have driven throughout the city. After all that money was burnt up, then the state decided it needed more money from increased taxes and tolls in order to actually add lanes and improve something.

Taxes are stupid, and the people that propose them are stupider.


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