alright so it looks like wayne_curr is going to be building me manifold soon but I found out the other day I need some damn pisons now and I can't find anyone that has them in stock and I'm not wanting to spend the money on forged ones cause then I'm gonna want to get rods then springs etc
Attachment 201249

Hating on my sweet custom tricked out etd with tial mvs....haters hate.

I'm not hating on anything. You have some nice pieces there he's just doing it cheaper

custom manifold with tial ewg for cheaper? He must be doing it for free. I don't really care though, boost is fun no matter what mani you have.

It's not going to be a tial. I'm going to try out one of the cxracing wastegates and I don't want to say anything about pricing. He can tell if he wants

They spend the big bucks in R&D. We copy them, not the other way around.

Can't really say that if you've never built one. Build it, then decide. To me an Absurdflow looks easier to make, but I'd imagine there are things I'm not taking into consideration.

There are thousands of ramhorns in circulation, doesn't seem to be a problem with the design. Poor construction may lead to broken manifolds but that applies to any design. In any case, the most common failure point is at the collector>turbo flange or the wastegate neck, neither of which are affected by long/short runners.

Tim, you'll never be out of work. You have a cult following. You're an innovator in the miata community. After all, who else has a TT miata :)

BTW, I'm not trying to start a pissing match. Each design has it's advantages. I too have thought about making a dyno comparison of the different designs, but 1) I'm not footing the entire bill, 2) The doubters will say it never happened, or somehow the numbers were skewed (just read the 10 pages of bickering on the link above for an example).

In my daily work I see a lot of people doing things because that's what everyone else does. A LOT of it makes no sense, or has been proven to be wrong by people who do their own R&D. I think there are very few race teams who actually do R&D on their turbo manifold design.

Top level N/A headers, that's another story.

If I were to build a ramhorn, I'd start at the collector which you can buy premade at a few different places. Each primary is then just a matter of connecting the collector pipe to the head flange. I'm pretty good by now at making straight/perpendicular-to-tangent segments and getting from point A to B. It is difficult to make long 3-d cuts in multiple pipes that all have to merge at one point. For me fitting is a PITA still and takes more brain power, patience, and skill than welding segments together.


the last manifold I did was thesnowboarders a few months ago. I had 2 builds after that but both lost funding. Fortuantely I do not do this for income and I have lots of other personal projects to do :)

No one want's the TT's. Boooo. i'd really like to sell them so I'd have money for a suspension for the subaru hahaha

I'm not trying to start smack either. I whole-heartedly agree.

Maybe I'll make Sav a ramhorn if he wants to try it.

I'm sure Paul wouldn't mind trying either.

Paul will try my sch. 10 stainless manifold. I want someone with a turbo large enough that may benefit from a ramhorn.

Tom's not using his car....just borrow his setup for a whilez. :)

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

ooooo pretty

Yeah there ya go. Nice.

I don't know about that. Everytime they go to the track it's a R&D session. Every season they change setups. Even if they don't actually have every part tested, they are using what's proven to work best to date, and I seariously doubt no one has though of just going with a simple header design with minimum bends.

Agreed. After the first one though, you could make a template for future collectors so you don't have to start from scratch every time. Fitting is also a challange with a ramhorn, but also time consuming is playing with torch setups to reach tight spots (while maintaining good coverage). I don't see many hard to reach spots on an absurdflow.

Don't sell it. I would display in the shop

Hope Jason doesn't mind me posting this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5354.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5350.jpg

Nice spot for the power sterering ;) But that's your car you use to mock up, right? Nice manifold. Looks simple :bang:

I don't have a shop. I display the TT's on the floor of my utility room. It's in the box next to the dog food. Don't trip over it.

Absurdflow mani's are very simple to weld. It's the cutting/fitting that takes time. I've found templates to be rather disappointing due to great variances in weld elbow cast size/shape. Not all are the same diameter or 1.900 OD, not all are 90 degree, etc. Mild is worse than stainless in that regard. I've tried to make templates from what I've done before but it's only a guestimate when it transfers over. I'm sure I'm missing something but whatever.

I don't change tips or diameter electrodes or whatever at all. I only have two electrodes, big for the mani's, small for the downpipes, whatever came with the welder has worked fine for the past few years. Still not using a glass lens. I'm a basic self taught welder. Lotza stuff is probably done wrong. I think using the steel electrode is much easier on aluminum than the 100% tungsten, so I use that instead.

Abe,

My mani looks really good thanks for everything

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5354.jpg

Hey Abe

Mani looks very nice. Where's the wastegate? is it going to be externally gated?

S,

^^ Yes it is, he just hasn't finished it yet. External V-Band MVS 38MM. It's going to be ceramic coated as well.

Lol yeah, I'm building off my car, and would like to keep everything together in case I ever get to drive it again (it's been sitting for almost 6mo now).

What about Shore MS? Will they let you put it up for display there?

I guess I haven't done enough carbon steel to notice the difference. I figured making the ballpark cut, then taking it to a belt to fine tune would be easy, but if the elbows vary that could be a problem. Do you buy from a single supplier? I requested that all my elbows come from the same mfg, or at least the same country. I wonder if that would solve the issue.

As for the electrode, you have some variation of tungsten. Ceriated, thoriated, lanthanated or pure. Steel would melt right off. I use 2% lanthanated for everything, but with these newer inverted machines it really doesn't matter as much as it would on a transformer welder.

How do you guys think this will perform against the FM/Begi cast mani's that a lot of us run?
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I'll be finding out soon enough. Wayne_curr is building me one and I'm switching from the tacotaco cast mani. I'm excited

A lot better.

I'll assume that means it will perform better everywhere.
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^ do you already have numbers of your current setup? and is wayne building you the one in the pic above or one like his?

No previous numbers. It was a very very halfassed setup from the previous owner with alot of BS parts. He's building one like posted above

I will guess that it will perform better everywhere.

How are you going to compare them then? Logs of spool at least?

He's going to have fun with that one, it's a bit harder than the one he made for himself. He'll spend as much time getting things fitted as a ramhorn/absurdflow.

I think it'll make more power than begi/fm, but I'd like to see how much. Lets say a ramhorn makes 40-50 more hp in a 300hp setup over a standard log like the taco taco (from h-t thread). A begi directed pulse log already flows better than a taco taco, so then where does the tubular shorty fall in?

Well, I've got an OOOOOOLD Begi mani, I don't think it's direct pulses. If I get one of those mani's I will do before and after 4th gear pulls and I'll take it to the same dyno that I just went to.
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I haven't made this one yet because it seems like it would be a little harder than my standard manifold (just cause I've made enough of the standard that it's getting a little easier) and flow worse, in my opinion. So for me to make it doesn't make much sense. It'll be cool to see it done though.

I think this would flow better than my tubular BEGI replacement, which already made more power and spooled sooner on my car than a BEGI S3 on a closely similar spec'ed car (jondoe's).

If you guys want that manifold its going to cost more than I quoted you. I thought you guys wanted the one like mine:
Attachment 201150

No, I'm interested in this one............

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...maniblend2.jpg
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PM'd you.

Its definitely more difficult than Tims design i can tell you that much.

Attachment 201147

Attachment 201148

Attachment 201149


The hardest part will be making the #2 and #3 merge with #1 and #4.

Is that the one he's making now? Not off to a bad start

I still think it'll be easier merging 2 and 3 than coping 2 and 3 into 1 and 4 like I did on mine.

I dont think so, marking and cutting a hole from a straight piece is alot easier than coping the whole 90 * bend with 2 different radii and a straight section in there.

I think we've talked about this before...same size DP or bigger?

I ran my 3" bellmouth DP with my ol' 3" exhaust/metal core cat. He ran BEGI's stainless SGDP which went up to 3" at some point, metal core cat, and enthuza's 3" exhaust. Trying to argue the bellmouth DP is better than a SGDP is difficult but I think it could have added to the difference, not just all the manifold.

I don't think it was the Bellmouth vs SGDP that made a difference as much as it was the 3" vs 2.5" size difference. AFAIK begi doesn't make a 3" DP, they just flare it to 3" at the end to meet a 3" cat/exhaust.

I think it's 2.75 after the dump tube blends in, then goes to 3" right at the end. I don't know for sure.

Whatever.

From their website:

BEGi can make a downpipe that has a 3.0" outlet to the exhaust system on it. However, it will not bolt up to the stock exhaust or any stock exhaust replacement. The downpipe will outlet the turbo at 2.25" and swage up to 2.5" prior to the wastegate vent tube dump. Then the downpipe will swage to 2.75" at the flex joint and swage up to 3.0" after the flex joint. This is a customizing option and is considered a custom order. 3.0" Downpipes cannot be returned for refund or exchange. All measurements are in OD.

This one is a PITA to build, that is the design I based my recent build off of. The next one I build will be a ram horn. I think the ram horn will be much easier to mock up but slightly harder to weld which is fine with me.

needs more:

Attachment 201099

Attachment 201100

Attachment 201101

http://honda-tech.com/attachment.php...1&d=1260668703

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...3/DSC_0274.jpg

Attachment 201102

That is an interesting design...........

Attachment 201098
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I'm nearly certain that will hang the turbo too low.

^^That design won't make near as much power as the longer tubed manifolds.

I'd rather have that design than the two shorty bottom mounts that everyone else is posting here. It'll spool fast and flow just fine for my 7K rev limiter and stock block. :)

I personally like the second design I posted better.

Define "no where near".

Equal Length vs Log Manifold Test - Tampa Racing

Granted it's not a log manifold, the runners are still shorter...so maybe 10-20 whp

see post #52.

Cool. So Sav can expect an extra 20-70 hp if I make him a "long" tube manifold.

But...I really like this one. I'm gonna see what I can do to put it in the same spot as my manifold and the other shorty one posted here.
Attachment 201093

I tried making a shorty a while back, but gave up after I couldn't get it to clear the motor mount and/or steering column (with a GT2560). There's just not enough room under there in a Miata

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5387.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5388.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...R/DSCF5389.jpg

That other manifolds looks like they'd be fun to build though. Anyone want to try an evo twin scroll?

No steering column though...

Attachment 201085

Attachment 201086

You could make it a non P/S manifold and have it moved more stern to clear the steering column.


sorta like this:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/IMG_0533.jpg

Or you can do something like this:

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...7_J5r09AdC.jpg

then you're left without a more optimal collector again....

Lets see a shot of the collector.

people would complain about the collector not being in the middle, and filter placement would be an issue if you have headlights

people are dildos.

true story

You guys are right, prob not the best setup. And didn't mean to offend or challenge ARTech's or anyones abilities, he's an awesome fabricator. Just thought id share a pic of what someone did to try and challenge the space issue with a similar type mani on a miata.

I dont see how you'd accomplish the shorty mani without copying something like the S4 manifold design:

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/P2213262.JPG