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Old 11-03-2009, 10:51 PM   #1
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Default 2005 speed motor in a 96NA?

Ok here is my situation. A buddy of mine has a motor out of a 2005 speed mx-5, factory turbo. I am trying to find out how hard the swap is going to be and since it originally was bolted up to a 6speed if it should bolt up to a 5speed without a problem. I dont suppose there should be too many issues as they are both 1.8's.

Ok here are the specs of the motor:
2005 mx-5 factory turbo motor
45k on motor
valve cover to oil pan
turbo and manifold included
Injectors
Intake manifold, TB etc.
motor has a spun rod bearing that needs to be replaced

price:$400
My main goal is just to boost my car here is what I think i will need added to the list
engine management
intercooler and piping
downpipe

so what do you guys think about my situation and what should i do? I think the price is very fair
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:11 PM   #2
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this has never been posted before.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:16 PM   #3
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Bro check out my rod.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:20 PM   #4
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It won't fit.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertn350 View Post
Ok here is my situation. A buddy of mine has a motor out of a 2005 speed mx-5, factory turbo. I am trying to find out how hard the swap is going to be and since it originally was bolted up to a 6speed if it should bolt up to a 5speed without a problem. I dont suppose there should be too many issues as they are both 1.8's.

Ok here are the specs of the motor:
2005 mx-5 factory turbo motor
45k on motor
valve cover to oil pan
turbo and manifold included
Injectors
Intake manifold, TB etc.
motor has a spun rod bearing that needs to be replaced

price:$400
My main goal is just to boost my car here is what I think i will need added to the list
engine management
intercooler and piping
downpipe

so what do you guys think about my situation and what should i do? I think the price is very fair
On a serious note: this **** has been posted before many times. Its virtually a 99-00 motor that would swap in like any other NB motor.You'll be having serious problems with is the wiring. Something about the MSM wiring/ecu being completely different from the regular miata's.

So get that motor, sell the head to make some of your money back, throw on your head and it will work that way. Though if your **** is running properly I'd just DIY turbo that. And not bother with all this bullshit.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:54 AM   #6
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Whats wrong with the head from this model engine?
And my motor has a nasty oil leak and was planning on a rebuild soon anyways.
Why are people saying it won't fit? They are both 1.8 blocks
any advantages to this intake manifold? I have researched on trying to find what parts are interchangeable . If anyone can refer a link I would appreciate it
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:01 AM   #7
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Read my post. Its not the head you need to be worrying about.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:43 AM   #8
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I've seen this question many times, but can't find much on a search. You can try here:

Mazda-speed.com - Index

or here:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=38

. . .so you can find out what a PITA it is to rewire a non Mazdaspeed Miata to use a MSM engine, only to realize how crappy the factory MSM engine management is anyways. The intake is a pile of crap too and so is the turbo.
The head on MSMs is different. It uses a COP setup similar to 01-05s but no VVT.

Just rebuild what you have. Unless you've got a ton of time and no money, but the swap can be done. It's just stupid to do.


One more link: http://www.miataclubofhawaii.com/for...ead.php?t=2138

Last edited by r808; 11-04-2009 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:34 AM   #9
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MSM uses a BP4W head like on the 99-00 with a different valve cover to fit the COPS.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
On a serious note: this **** has been posted before many times. Its virtually a 99-00 motor that would swap in like any other NB motor.You'll be having serious problems with is the wiring. Something about the MSM wiring/ecu being completely different from the regular miata's.

So get that motor, sell the head to make some of your money back, throw on your head and it will work that way. Though if your **** is running properly I'd just DIY turbo that. And not bother with all this bullshit.
So put a '96 head on (essentially) a '99 engine? Isn't that a step in the wrong direction?

Couldn't he swap some electrics around IOT keep the better-flowing head?
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:42 AM   #11
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lord have mercy. You guys is skeered of everything.

That is a really cheap nb motor period. The turbo is junk like everyone has been saying. If you don't mind wiring you could get it to run full standalone but it wont be the simplest thing in the world.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:51 AM   #12
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Now that I understand the thread title I'm here to reply. (200 5speed motor wut?)

I looked at doing a full MSM engine/tranny/turbo swap into my '92 last year when I was replacing the motor. I found a decent setup for $1800...which considering it included the 6speed, a 1.8L motor AND all the turbo components would have been a good deal.

The hardware fits in just fine. In my case I would have needed Flyin' Miatas 1.8L swap kit, but you won't. The electrical wiring will be a nightmare. It has a different ECU...different ignition etc. You do all that and you're still running around with the MSM turbo kit. While I've recently gained respectly for the Mazdaspeed setup due to codystrife's straight up swap and leatherface24's amazing transformation of his MSM...you can easily do something equivalent or better with your current setup.

There is very little that is different about the motor. No, there is no advantage to the intake manifold. I believe the intake cam is *slightly different. You can just as easily bolt up the turbo parts to any other 1.8L. Of course then you have to look at engine management anyhow.

If you're getting a steal and want to tackle lots of wiring and diagnosis you can have an upgradeable OEM setup with decent headroom. (Leatherface is well over 200whp). If you have money for a decent kit and an ECU then do it yourself and have more headroom...less headaches. Honestly I would not do all that work to still be stuck with the shitty MSM ECU.

EDIT:

The MSM tranny IS stronger and worth swapping over. Otherwise all the little things Mazda did to make the MSM a worthwhile package are in the chassis and would take a year to swap over. Your motor is just as good save the head, and for the hassle you can get better turbo parts and better engine management. Really depends on your goals though.
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:01 PM   #13
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Here's a success story:

Mark Brandt and his 1995 Mazdaspeed

I'd email this guy. He made it sound easy.
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:47 PM   #14
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Assuming the entire motor's not trashed from the spun bearing, this is an easy thing to do, barely more complicated than any other motor swap. I believe you'll be SOL on the downpipe and will need to have something custom built. BEGi can probably help you out, since they built one for Mark's car.

I would probably take the known good 96 block, and bolt on the MSM head and turbo goodies. Again, assuming the cyl head isn't trashed.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:43 PM   #15
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well I spoke to the guy a few minutes ago and hes really hurting for money so i think i can get it a little cheaper. only problem thats coming up is the ecu, he doesnt have it. so i will have to rely on my stock ecu . I will have to rely on a wideband and piggy back untill i can come up with some more money. If the only reason for not using the msm head is the cop setup i was planning on doing that anyways with toyota coils. I just think the wiring is going to be pretty difficult. I am not sure how enthusiastic i am to swapping a whole motor and doing days of wiring....
My other option was to replace a few gaskets and simply turbo my motor. I already have 7m injectors and an evo intercooler.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:47 PM   #16
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How the hell are you expecting to make your stock ecu control the MSM wiring/head?
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Here's a success story:

Mark Brandt and his 1995 Mazdaspeed

I'd email this guy. He made it sound easy.
emailed
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
How the hell are you expecting to make your stock ecu control the MSM wiring/head?
the wiring can not be very different , not enough to where my ecu can not control it. As for the turbo and AFR a descent piggy back and tune can control that. If there is something you know about the msm motor and the wiring please inform me. It would be very much appreciated.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertn350 View Post
the wiring can not be very different , not enough to where my ecu can not control it.
Yes it can and no it won't
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertn350 View Post
the wiring can not be very different , not enough to where my ecu can not control it. As for the turbo and AFR a descent piggy back and tune can control that. If there is something you know about the msm motor and the wiring please inform me. It would be very much appreciated.
Why the hell would you just assume that? Just cause they're both miata's they can't be TOO much different?
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