2nd Issue with my China charger
 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but......



I already checked for shaft play and there isn't any and I can't make it touch the housing. So.....:dunno:
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wow, that stinks

So if there is no shaft play, then we're hearing bearings?

that sounds horrible.

you have my condolences.

All in the name of science...

Guess it's time to test the warranty...

Edit: were you running restricted oil?

No I wasn't, not until last night at least.
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Sounds like the bearings went dry. Any chance the restriction cut oil completely?

Wasn't running a restrictor until last night. It's been making this noise for a few days.
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I read at least once that some have had bearing tolerances so tight on the chinachargers that there was no shaft play new. Journal bearing turbos need some lateral shaft play- that's the tolerance needed for the oil. Did it have play when new?

No sir.
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That sucks man... Hopefully it won't be a problem to get it all exchanged. Good luck!

I bet that's it. I bet the tolerance is so tight new that the bearing itself is creating oil starvation. My garrett, new as delivered from an authorized dealer had lateral shaft play, but not enough to touch the compressor housing. The tolerance was problem half the distance from the wheel/blade edge to the wall in an extreme-to-extreme shaft play test.

I suggest you take it to a turbo shop and ask them if its worth a fresh bearing or not.

I've already contacted the seller and emailed the the link to the youtube clip. I will wait for them to respond.
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+1

now that i think of it Phil, by the time your done getting that repaired, you could have gotten a decent name brand for the same money

*walks outside to check turbo shaft play*

Mine has lateral play to it...enough to wiggle a little but not touch the side wall. BTW, I've been using a homemade restrictor from day one.

Why would you want less oil to get to a journal bearing?

Journal bearing turbos shouldn't need a restrictor unless you are running over 60 psi oil pressure.

No possibility that that c clip is in there right? WG still tightened up and all?

fwiw, I emailed Dustin at emotors, asked if they recommend oil restrictions. Here is his reply:

"YES, DEFINITELY – WE WILL BE UPDATING OUR AUCTIONS TO INCLUDE THAT INFO – WE CURRENTLY DON’T CARRY THEM BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE THE PROBLEM – OVER OILING J"

huh, wow crazy how that works^^^^^^^^^^

The instructions that came with my Garrett (journal bearing) called for a restrictor, I've been using a 1/8 pop-rivet(with the nail part removed) in the oil supply line fitting as a restrictor for two years.

Ask him to explain exactly what over oil is. I bet he can't give you an scientific explanation. That's because there's no such thing as over oiling or over lubricating a bearing. AAMOF the less time a given unit of oil is actually inside the chra the better. If you must run a restrictor in a journal bearing turbo then there's either some kind of pressure build up in the oiling system or the seals are worn in the turbo.

I've read several times on the DSM forums that the eBay 16Gs aren't balanced even though they look like they are - and the turbine and compressor wheels are excessively heavy compared to a name brand turbo.

The instructions from Garrett? Because they're website says journal bearings do NOT need restrictors. AAMOF their engineers say that too. :dunno:

Well everywhere I've read has talked about using a restrictor...especially with the egay turbo's. I've also been using the pop rivet.

m2cupcar,
I did'nt say the instructions were from "Garrett" I said the instructions that (came with my Garrett) the instructions were from the supplier.

I understand your argument, and cannot supply any evidence to the contrary. Everything pro-restrictor is anecdotal, but on that note I haven't heard anecdotal evidence of failures as a result of the restrictor.

So I got this response from the seller.....

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that's a pretty cool reply from the vendor. from what you described to me earlier it sounds like you have a BB turbo. needs more video of you spinning it by hand....

The only reason I can see for a restrictor is to keep from blowing oil through the seals when the oil can't drain out fast enough and builds too much pressure in the bearing area.

So if it is a ball bearing turbo and the problem was caused by too much oil pressure wouldn't you have oil blowing through the seals directly into the intake and exhaust? Got symptoms of that? Chalk it up to a piece of shit product then.

I work with bearings everyday. Over lubrication is a leading cause of bearing failure.

I did notice some oil in the inlet when I removed the airfilter to check for shaft play. Haven't noticed anything from the exhaust though.
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I'll get a video tomorrow.
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No lateral shaft play could be bb. How does it spin right now if you spin it by hand? And you gotta wonder why they stopped selling the bb turbos... ;)

Who do you build turbos for? Because two garrett engineers recently agreed (and so does Garrett officially) that journal bearing turbos don't need restrictors and would not over oil. I've yet to find any examples of a journal bearing turbo dying from over oiling. OTOH under oiling would seem far more capable of destroying a journal bearing turbo. As mentioned- if you're blowing oil past the seals, then there's an issue with getting oil out or the turbo has bad seals.

That said, please explain over oiling of a journal bearing turbo (and I'm not speaking of excessive pressure blowing oil past the seals). :hustler:

So yeah, I think I'm gonna go ahead and return it. The noise is getting louder, sound slike some juiced up electric car driving by. I just hope that they send me something with the same specs.
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There is no such thing as too much lubricant. Trust me.

Is that what she said? :laugh:
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I was expecting "he"

Ok.
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I dont build turbo's and never claimed i did. But I do work with bearings on a daily basis. And to much lubricant is a huge problem.

If you cant get enough lubricant then go throw 10qts of oil in your car.

Comming from the subaru community there are alot of restrictors used. We run almost 100PSI oil pressure at cruise.

I dont know anything about this particular turbo but I am guessing he needs a restrictor. Is it water cooled or just oil cooled? If it is only oil cooled there is a possibility the problem is the oil may be passing through the journal bearing to quik to absorb the heat. If thats the case it is gonna overheat very quikly. I could be totally wrong about this but this is my guess.

Wut wut wut?

Oil passing through too quickly to absorb the heat?

You are totally wrong is my guess.


Please go take a heat transfer class. The only thing I can think of is that you are somehow confusing oil cooling in a turbo with coolant in a radiator. Yes, in a radiator, you need a certain (low) flow rate to see adequate delta Ts. This is why you never completely remove a thermostat. When you do this the car overheats because the coolant passes through the radiator too quickly to achieve the required ~30 degree drop.

A radiator is you heat sink in this case. The case of the turbo is different. For oil in a turbo, the oil pan is the heat sink. You are cooling the turbo.

Try again holmes.

NO, that is not true. PSI doesnt mean flow, flow is what cools the bearings, mass flow of oil thru the bearings. PSI is pressure or amount of force the oil makes against some area, as I have stated before, in the honda world that I come from, most chinachargers lasted as long as the name brand turbos as long as they were properly restricted from too much pressure in the bearing. Good luck thought, it seems that this turbo is running dry and it may have damaged something inside. Time to test warranty, to be honest with u, most warranties fail, especially garrett.

Like a fellow member said somewhere:

"Garrett is so sure their turbos are excellent that if the turbo breaks, its YOUR fault"

Good luck, Roger

I have never seem this in my life:

This is why you never completely remove a thermostat. When you do this the car overheats because the coolant passes through the radiator too quickly to achieve the required ~30 degree drop.

I havent taken heat transfer yet(Next fall), but I have taken thermostats out and the effect is exactly the opposite. Lower temp in the block, ECU adjust fuel to heat engine to proper temp, lower MPG.

Btw urabus, your over-lubrication premise only applies to bearings with rolling members, ie: ball-bearing turbos.

Journal bearing turbos (like OP's) are always sliding, and therefore can't fail due to overlubrication, which causes rolling parts to slide instead of roll, because well, they're already doing that inefficient rolling thing.

While you are removing the same amount of heat over time, you are now averaging the coolant temp, instead of providing a sufficient delta T. This means that heat compounds in areas that were designed to receive coolant at a certain temp, and are now seeing something much hotter. The temperature gradient at these points is what matters to keeping an engine cool.

Without getting too technical because, well I cant,

A thermostat is basically at derivative of time with respect to temperature, when it sees a temperature, it opens up for some time and then closes when the temperature goes under a level. Given that idea, a lower temp thermostat is just a lower dF, a lower temperature difference will open it up. No thermostat should give u constant flow of cooler water into the block and therefore lower final temp.

They don't work like a light switch.

I'm also arguing a steady state case.

Coolant is not at steady state, you keep adding heat from the burning gas!

Please crack open your thermo book again.

The coolant system can be at steady state. Ever driven down the highway? Your Qin can be constant (due to "OMG burning gas!11!"). I think you do not understand what a steady state system is.


EDIT: This is way off topic, I was simply alluding to urabus's misunderstanding. Coolant flow through radiator is not = oil flow through turbo.

I like turtles.

Still u dont overheat a car by taking a thermostat out, IMHO.

me too!!!

https://www.msu.edu/~lauellen/turtlegirls2.jpg

the direction of this thread is now questionable
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...alatorfail.gif

agreed. those that don't know what the fuck they are talking about please STFU so we can hear those that do.

I have a feeling, when I'm old, this is how life will be for me. This post made me sad.

I edited this post to add something more meaningful to this thread on my next post.