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Old 03-14-2009, 11:12 PM   #1
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Default 3 Bar GM map sensor BLUES... AGAIN!!!!

Well, we've got more MAP sensor blues. This one didn't even come from Adaptronic!! I bought this one for Vlad from an eBay vendor and had it drop shipped so he could get busy with tuning and boosting. Well, every time we connect the 5v+ lead of the GM MAP sensor to the 5v+ side of the TPS the TPS doesn't have sufficient power to go all the way to 2500-2400 ADC anymore. It stops at 600. Remove the wire and it reaches full voltage spread again.

Below is the listed sensor.

eBay Motors: GM 3 BAR MAP SENSOR HONDATA AEM MOTEC MSD DFI HALTECH (item 250378753632 end time Mar-25-09 13:22:30 PDT)

We have A to Lt grn/Red
We have B to Brn/Red
We have C connected to MAF signal.

Tried to call them, ofcourse they are a Mon-Fri business (damn slackers its 10:15 Saturday night and I'm still working with customers!)

Anyone have an idea on this? Anything we can check with a DMM? If these GM sensors would just work, alot of people would spend alot more time boosting instead of checking their wiring 85 times.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:15 PM   #2
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Eating dinner right now. As soon as I'm done going to get that tester. I think I'll just give you a call tomorrow man, it might be a little late by the time I get back home.

**** EBAY!!
-Vlad
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Well, we've got more MAP sensor blues. This one didn't even come from Adaptronic!! I bought this one for Vlad from an eBay vendor and had it drop shipped so he could get busy with tuning and boosting. Well, every time we connect the 5v+ lead of the GM MAP sensor to the 5v+ side of the TPS the TPS doesn't have sufficient power to go all the way to 2500-2400 ADC anymore. It stops at 600. Remove the wire and it reaches full voltage spread again.

Below is the listed sensor.

eBay Motors: GM 3 BAR MAP SENSOR HONDATA AEM MOTEC MSD DFI HALTECH (item 250378753632 end time Mar-25-09 13:22:30 PDT)

We have A to Lt grn/Red
We have B to Brn/Red
We have C connected to MAF signal.

Tried to call them, ofcourse they are a Mon-Fri business (damn slackers its 10:15 Saturday night and I'm still working with customers!)

Anyone have an idea on this? Anything we can check with a DMM? If these GM sensors would just work, alot of people would spend alot more time boosting instead of checking their wiring 85 times.
Hmmmm. I'm the one who originally suggested that Stein use the TPS +5V reference for his map sensor. I'm pretty sure the stock ECU supplies a direct +5V line to the TPS sensor, not a pullup. My MS sends a 5V reference to the TPS sensor, but it's standalone.

Vlad-Are you SURE you tapped the correct wire? A map sensor can't pull that much current. Then again, you're adding current draw to the factory ECU, which may not have been designed to deal with anymore.

How much current does the map sensor draw?
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:28 PM   #4
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Doesn't the adaptronic ECU have a seperate input and voltage for the MAP sensor? With my AEM EMS, and several Haltech's I've installed, the MAP sensor always has a designated input that's not shared with any other components.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:30 PM   #5
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It has to be so little. Stein's works fine like this, and the Adaptronic now supplies the 5v. I'm thinking maybe the sensor is busted, but I don't know what to DMM to check that theory out.


Quote:
Doesn't the adaptronic ECU have a seperate input and voltage for the MAP sensor? With my AEM EMS, and several Haltech's I've installed, the MAP sensor always has a designated input that's not shared with any other components.
It does, but its not used on the harness, and on the 5v the TPS and MAP are tied in the ECU itself.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:24 AM   #6
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Hmmmm. I'm the one who originally suggested that Stein use the TPS +5V reference for his map sensor. I'm pretty sure the stock ECU supplies a direct +5V line to the TPS sensor, not a pullup. My MS sends a 5V reference to the TPS sensor, but it's standalone.

Vlad-Are you SURE you tapped the correct wire? A map sensor can't pull that much current. Then again, you're adding current draw to the factory ECU, which may not have been designed to deal with anymore.

How much current does the map sensor draw?
I have checked, double checked, and triple checked everything. Checked with Travis, as well as Stein on the correct wires: the wiring is done right. I connect the +5v wire from the MAP sensor to the tps +5v and the adaptronic shows ADC goes to 620, WAY TOO LOW. tps reads 8% at WOT: way off. Then I take the +5v wire from the MAP and disconnect it from the tps +5v and leave everything else exactly the same: now tps adc reads 2645 or something: CORRECT, as well as tps shows 100% at WOT: THE WAY IT SHOULD.

I just got a voltmeter from a friend, and will test whatever I need tomorrow/tonite. The only thing I can think of is the MAP sensor for whatever reason draws way more than +5v from the tps.

We'd appreciate other inputs though. If I can resolve this the car is otherwise ready to drive/tune/boost.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:42 PM   #7
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I have checked, double checked, and triple checked everything. Checked with Travis, as well as Stein on the correct wires: the wiring is done right. I connect the +5v wire from the MAP sensor to the tps +5v and the adaptronic shows ADC goes to 620, WAY TOO LOW. tps reads 8% at WOT: way off. Then I take the +5v wire from the MAP and disconnect it from the tps +5v and leave everything else exactly the same: now tps adc reads 2645 or something: CORRECT, as well as tps shows 100% at WOT: THE WAY IT SHOULD.

I just got a voltmeter from a friend, and will test whatever I need tomorrow/tonite. The only thing I can think of is the MAP sensor for whatever reason draws way more than +5v from the tps.

We'd appreciate other inputs though. If I can resolve this the car is otherwise ready to drive/tune/boost.
Either the map sensor is pulling too much current (more than it should) or it's pulling too much current (the stock ECU's 5V power supply is being overwhelmed). Either way, you need a new 5V power supply for that map sensor.

USB power supply will work.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
We have A to Lt grn/Red
We have B to Brn/Red
We have C connected to MAF signal.
Was C connected to Lt grn/Black?

Pin outs on the ebay part don't match the GM part no.
Ebay Part
A=Positive 5 Volt Source
B= Negative/Ground
C= Signal to ECU

12223861 - 3 Bar MAP sensor
A = ground
B = 0-5v output
C = 5v reference
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:22 PM   #9
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The sensor says "GM STYLE" on the paperwork. This leads me to believe its some sort of knockoff. I wonder if wiring info ebay seller gave us is correct now.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:40 PM   #10
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Wire it up as Sv has written, either way your getting a new map sensor outa these guys if it doesn't work.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:00 AM   #11
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Done. Now the TPS is showing the correct voltage, but the MAP is not showing up at all on the adaptronic. I verified with the voltmeter that it is getting power, and it is, but its not working at all. for kPA its showing - I'm guessing thats "no signal". You think I should try connecting it to the 12v source off the maf?
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:06 AM   #12
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sv650_ck is right with the wiring and the seller is wrong... This is what my Haltech manual says and how I wired it up:



If yours doesn't work, my guess it must have gotten fried.

--Ferdi
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:09 AM   #13
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Done. Now the TPS is showing the correct voltage, but the MAP is not showing up at all on the adaptronic. I verified with the voltmeter that it is getting power, and it is, but its not working at all. for kPA its showing - I'm guessing thats "no signal". You think I should try connecting it to the 12v source off the maf?
That will definitely create smoke The reference signal has to supply 5v because thats what the adaptronic takes as input from the MAP. It takes a 0-5v signal not a 0-12v spread. If they gave the wrong instructions thats going to be funny. We'll see tomorrow. Sure you have it wired up exactly as written? I would think you would get some kind of signal.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:29 AM   #14
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I double checked it: when its wired in the old way I get a map signal and no tps signal. When I swap it I get a tps signal but no map signal.


**** MY LIFE
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:26 AM   #15
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GUYS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!


Connected the wires according to YOUR diagram and looks like I'm getting a tps signal AND MAP signal

let me just say again:

**** STUPID EBAY SELLERS
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:32 AM   #16
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And if Travis had actually installed one of these into an NB before selling them, most of these issues could have been prevented. Only stating the obvious. Glad you're slowly figuring everything out though. **** happens. That's why I did a MS because others had done it before me so I knew what to expect and had people to talk to if I had problems.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:43 AM   #17
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OK, another update: the car now starts, but:
1) no matter what we do it wont stay on for more than 5 seconds. If I keep reving it it will stay on. If I just raise the rpm by applying the gas pedal but hold it and not rev it: it dies.
2) the MAP sensor requires less and less ADC to read 100kPA..this is not normal. Every time I turn the car on and it dies, the kPA goes down a little bit. I have to lower the ADC reading every time.
3) my wideband is not communicating with the adaptronic anymore. it did before and I didnt do anything to it, the gauge reads afr's but not communicating them to the adaptronic. I'll double check the wiring again.
4) I am using the stock iat sensor. Travis told me Stein might be using the GM sensor.
Stein, is this correct? If so, I'll have to call you about where you got yours.

Other than that, for the little time its on, it doesnt jump around anymore. Idles fine then dies.

Slowly we are making progress
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:57 AM   #18
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Ummm... I thought with the boomslang this was plug in, load the base map, and go tune? What gives?
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
4) I am using the stock iat sensor. Travis told me Stein might be using the GM sensor.
Stein, is this correct? If so, I'll have to call you about where you got yours.

Other than that, for the little time its on, it doesnt jump around anymore. Idles fine then dies.

Slowly we are making progress
Yes, I used the GM IAT. I bought it from DIYAutotune. It's like $26 for the sensor, pins to crimp on, a hunk of wire and a weld in bung. Don't use the stock IAT. You need to mount the GM IAT in the charge pipe after the IC - hopefully somewhere outide of the engine bay so it doesn't heat soak.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:52 AM   #20
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Ummm... I thought with the boomslang this was plug in, load the base map, and go tune? What gives?
All along Travis has said that you have to wire in the MAP and IAT. The problem here is that you had two complete noobs (me at 18psi) that had no experience doing the first installs. The other thing that was against both of us is we did everything (ECU and turbo install) at the same time. The MS guys suggest installing MS first to eliminate variables. I think the case could be made here as well. Get it running on a stock car first and it will be easier.

Once we figured out that I had wired the MAP wrong I have had no issues. The autotune worked well. I drove the car to work today.
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