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Old 07-01-2008, 04:08 AM   #1
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Default 99-00 boost retard

well i just bought a 99 and i do plan on boosting it.....i've been searching on here for threads with info on boost retard but i've had no luck..maybe my terminology but nothing comes up... since i dont have enough money for stand alone systems....i emailed the megasquirt people and ask if they had a pnp in the works for the 99-00 models...but they said no.....

now im wondering what are some ideas other then that adjustable timing wheel thing they sell over at begi....i've been looking at this but i havent been able to get anymore info on it

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory...CategoryID=116

anybody out ther have any better solutions on to my problem?

keep in mind i am on a budget but not so much...thanks in advance
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:36 AM   #2
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Should be easy, just build your own megasquirt.

BTW-the car in your sig link is not a 99, but you knew that, right?

Last edited by Zabac; 07-01-2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason: wtf
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Should be easy, just build your own megasquirt.

BTW-the car in your sig link is not a 99, but you knew that, right?
x2, just wire up a CAS and run a MS1 unit...should be fairly simple. Right now I am just running a Voodoo box with stock timing and WI. I am boosting 8psi and getting great AFR's. I would recommend MS over a VB unless you can find a used one for <200.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:51 AM   #4
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There is nothing like what you're looking at for the '99+ short of a piggyback or standalone. Building a MS and running it parallel is your best/cheapest option. Other than that, you're looking at Hydra or Xede for PnP options.

BEGi has a new piggyback in the works that they haven't released yet.
http://www.bellengineering.net/articles.php?tPath=2_40'
I emailed Stephanie about specifics but she's out of the office until next week. Somebody leaked a little information in a thread the other day about a major limitation that may hinder high-power applications. It sounds like an EmanageBlue-type device, which means it might be limited to small'ish injectors unless it can shorten injector pulse width to allow you to idle large injectors. And those types of limited capability piggybacks also have a maximum amount it will be able to lengthen the pulse which will limit max fuel supply.

I hope it's out soon... might be the new magic in town if it's got enough flexibility.

Last edited by samnavy; 07-01-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:36 PM   #5
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Funny that you mention that, Sam, as it touches on a point that has always baffled me somewhat.

The Xede, at $1,600 and including either 440 or 550 injectors, is also similar to an EMB insofar as its injector control is concerned. Seriously- go to the ChipTorque website and download the original documentation. Here's an excerpt from the official Xede tuning guide:
The XEDE modifies the fuel delivery by changing the load variable before the PCM sees the result. The load variable might be MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) or MAF signal (Mass of Air Flow). Lowering the value (ie -10%) will lower the amount of fuel delivered as the PCM reads a lower load signal. Increasing the value (ie +10%) will increase the amount of fuel delivered as the PCM reads a higher load signal. This should work as stated for MAF systems.
(...)
It is extremely important to remember that in changing the load variable, as described above, the fuel delivery is changed, but at the same time the PCM is given signals which would equate to less load and the PCM’s original program is likely to have more ignition advance at these loads. The normal procedure for safe tuning, then, is to start with, say, -2o (minus two degrees) in the high load section of the timing map and then use the fuel style (MAF or MAP) map to lean out the fuel mixtures to an appropriate value, then readvance the ignition timing if possible
(...)
The XEDE relies on modifying the crankshaft reference signal (whether from the distributor or a crank angle sensor) before it is read by the PCM, in order to change the effective ignition timing. This means that all things related to this crank angle reference are also likely to be moved, provided that the original engine management (PCM) software is configured to do so. Importantly, these can include variable camshaft timing.
(...)
Output scaling allows a global change to be applied to an individual analogue voltage or frequency. This is useful for an increase in injector size, for example. By multiplying the Map sensor input voltage by 0.945 as in the example above, we may globally allow for a slightly larger injector by providing a lower load signal to the ECU under all operating conditions. Obviously there are bounds outside of which the ECU will not accept such input changes.

Wacky... On the one hand, I do believe that Bell has gotten it to work. This is the one occasion where I'm going to dip into hero worship and proclaim that if Corky says that it is so, then it must be so. On the other hand, it really goes against everything I thought I knew about fuel management via input-signal-interceptor piggyback.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:10 PM   #6
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i thought i responded to my posting but i guess the computer at work sucks....

Zabac...thats my old car...

samnavy...anyword on that product?
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:12 PM   #7
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Nada.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:13 PM   #8
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i see...well im gonna ask a "noob question" when you say running the ms parallel...what do you mean by that?
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
There is nothing like what you're looking at for the '99+ short of a piggyback or standalone. Building a MS and running it parallel is your best/cheapest option. Other than that, you're looking at Hydra or Xede for PnP options.

BEGi has a new piggyback in the works that they haven't released yet.
http://www.bellengineering.net/articles.php?tPath=2_40'
I emailed Stephanie about specifics but she's out of the office until next week. Somebody leaked a little information in a thread the other day about a major limitation that may hinder high-power applications. It sounds like an EmanageBlue-type device, which means it might be limited to small'ish injectors unless it can shorten injector pulse width to allow you to idle large injectors. And those types of limited capability piggybacks also have a maximum amount it will be able to lengthen the pulse which will limit max fuel supply.

I hope it's out soon... might be the new magic in town if it's got enough flexibility.
oh man I cant wait for that thing to come out. Hopefully it works well too, like all their products. While ms parallel is a very great tuning solution, some (like me) are EXTREMELY electronically challenged and couldnt solder together two wires let alone build one of those. till I go big with forged internals and decent turbo, this sounds like the best thing for an nb with a modest setup (like a wrx td04)......
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:57 PM   #10
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Megasquirt Dude!
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:41 PM   #11
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megasquirt
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:53 AM   #12
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man I researched this **** a bit now, and tried and tried to understand all that **** required to be soldered together, and after a while it just becomes a blurr....I can tune a car to put down some serious power, but when it comes to circuit boards and wires and ****: F A I L ! ! !

oh well, I have some time to keep trying to understand this ****: how to build a parallel MS for an NB, who knows, maybe some day my dumb *** will figure it out and build it
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:29 PM   #13
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i was talking to emilio on friday at the kinod meet about this and he mentioned something about there is a guy on this forum who custom builds MEGASQUIRTS for 99 NB....does anybody know who he might be talking about
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by superman with heat View Post
i was talking to emilio on friday at the kinod meet about this and he mentioned something about there is a guy on this forum who custom builds MEGASQUIRTS for 99 NB....does anybody know who he might be talking about
I know Chad (cjernigan) did them but he started a new job and doesn't have the time to do them anymore. Why don't you ask Braineack too. If not, shoot me a pm and I'll see if I can help you.

And no, I don't build them. I've got one that Chad built but I think Tim wants it.
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:22 PM   #15
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i see...well im gonna ask a "noob question" when you say running the ms parallel...what do you mean by that?
I see no one replied to your question. It means you install the MS to control fuel and spark in parallel with your car ECU. The ECU keeps control of everything else.

You're going to need a wiring harness besides the MS.
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:59 PM   #16
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thanks rafa....im doing research now so prepare my turbo set up later....im working on saving money for my suspension at the moment so the MS is gonna wait a lil bit lol but when im ready for the actual purchase i will be sendind either you or braineack a pm....couldnt i just get the aem f/ic and run it parallel just like suggested with the MS? or is it something that hasnt really been looked in to?.....

slava...i havent went with the custom MS build because im not to smart when it comes with the electrical...im still learning lol
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