BEGi is going to offer DIY kits
 

BEGi added to their web site two kits coming in the next few days. One is going to have the manifold downpipe and a garrett turbo and the other, the "Shanghai kit" is going to have a chinese turbo they have been testing for a while in house.

BEGi - - Front Page News - shanghai

Should be interesting.

just my luck, I would love to Shanghai my miata, perhaps I will shanghai the 1.8L swap

Stephanie was telling me about this...should end the constant bitching about late shipping...since it's all DIY - they COULD get these shipped quickly (doesn't mean it will or won't happen).

Kudos to Bell for doing this...great idea.

I wonder if they would leak which chinacharger they are using?

well, if BEGi can use a chinacharger, maybe I should give one a try on my next build.

I'd like to china-charge my daily...once my green car proves to be reliable.

chinamen...cheaper than jews.

what if a chinese man converted to judaism???

Not possible...Jews would never allow someone cheaper than them into the "club"

(My gf is jewish - as is her family)

Careful here people my kids are both Chinese and Jewish. I was going to be the 1st person to buy this new chinacharger kit form BEGi but that car is no longer getting a turbo and the insurance is paying out better then expected.

I will be down there in a few days to get some parts so I can get some pics of the chinachargers they are going to use if that will help anyone.

your kids are awesome. I've never been so entertained by kids.

I should also note that I saw the Borat movie with a Jewish girl I met in Santa Fe, lol.

What car did you pick-up? I wanted that turbo brg, bad.

Good, just in time for my build. I was just thinking about something like this a few daysgo. Seems they read my mind! Once I get more info on the china charger, I may take that route to be one of the earlier testers. I plan to turbo within 2 or 3 months, so perfect timing.

I was eyeballing an "off brand" turbo last night, similar specs to a 2560, but only ~$275. As long as the center section is fairly designed, and the housings are rip offs of name brand parts, what really could go wrong? Only so many parts in a turbo that can fail.

I think all the chinachargers are journal bearing not ball bearing. keep that in mind.

My friend had a china t3/t4 on his e30 and it worked like a champ.

has any one else had good result with chinachargers????

I'd like to know what turbo they're going to be offering. I currently have a T3/T4.

Thanks for the offer.


p.s. where you involved in an accident? What are your plans now?

For the record, I am Jewish. I find it interesting that you refer to it as a Race, definitely the first person outside the religion to do so. Unless you are the Jew in the equation.

Sam,
I've asked this question to some in the past, and from what I understand it is an ethnicity and also a religion. Not too many of you guys here in CA so I don't get too much exposure from Jews over here. Enlighten me so I don't make a fool of myself in the future.

BTW, is calling someone a Jew derogatory?

I have a mixed opinion on the matter. There are some things like material selection, maintaining exacting clearances and surface finish repeatably, quality of the parts made, manufacturing processes, etc that affect the end product. Chinese parts are known to be sub-par. Cheap before everything else. Certain things that's ok. On a turbo, I would be VERY cautious buying a Chinese rip-off of a GT2560. Dr. Turbo on the forum said they literally reverse engineer the name brand turbo's to get the specs to build their knock-offs.

Personally, I run knock-off (though not Chinese knockoffs) WG and BOV. These are important parts, but they aren't subjected to the extreme conditions a turbocharger is expected to reliably operate under (my BOV doesn't spin 100k RPM's either).

You're all jews, now get back on topic! :gtfo: This is about BEGi kits and chinachargers, both of which I am interested in hearing more about.

I guess I knew most all Chinachargers were journal bearing, which is probably how they keep the price so low. But for a $400 savings vs a Garrett, I could take a slight delay in boost. I will be curious to see axactly what they will offer. If it looks decent I may very well bite, but if its not such a hot deal, I may still stick with my other plans. I will almost for sure use their manifold and downpipe either way.

HA! "You guys". :bowrofl:

Its too long to really explain the finely drawn line, so if you are really that curious you can IM me and ill give you the run down. But accept it as both, better to do that then not and get into an unnecessary debate with someone.

It can be derogatory depending on context. Kinda like ------ and nigga, you know.

But yea, lets get back on topic. I stopped hijacking threads a long time ago and I dont want braineack changing my avatar again.

Plenty in the Los Angeles area. There's a large Hasidic community near WeHo with a couple of Yeshivot nearby.


I think Mark had a Chinacharger in his "Ghettocharger" set-up. He said often that it worked fine and was dependable.

And I took the plunge following his suggestion and so far (knock on wood) I have been pleasantly surprised. FWIW, I used to have a Garrett T3 Super 60 but was not happy with the spool.

There are some other members using chinachargers in this forum.

I must confess though that I keep a spare used Garrett T3 in my locker just in case.

Withy the price of the chinachargers, couldnt you just keep a spare of the same? Even if mine shits out after 30-50k miles, at $300 each, whats the big deal.

Hehe. It's an utter BITCH to remove my turbo. I have P/S and A/C, a -12AN braided drain line, External wastegate, 3" DP with 2" separated gasses down pipe. If I had another turbo to replace it, it would take ALL DAY to change mine. Sucks. V-bands would make life a lot easier for sure though. Still, I like having a reliable setup. It's more fun to track your shit and know it's right than to beat on it and always be thinking "what was that, did something just happen, I hope that's not the....". I daily drive mine. In college it's my only car. It has to work. Plus if I have to keep a spare $300 turbo, that negates the benefits of buying a cheaper one in the first place. :giggle:

That is true, and Im also daily driving mine, and on a fairly limited budget, so I also want my stuff to be worry free. I cant see a china charger being a huge reliability issue though. I will have to just wait and see about the prices and more info on the charger.

Besides, this car shouldnt see big power, nor should it see much track time, if any. Thats why I will be buying another project car soon after the turbo is done. If I can do a chinacharger, and an ebay intercooler for $1500, I will be happy as long as it lasts me a few years and/or 30k+ miles. Shouldnt be a huge deal to replace with just a simple setup, internal wastegate and whatnot. If it does go out though, by then I should be able to afford a real turbo without much issue. Just right now, turbo is high on my list, but my income is a bit strangled thanks to college loans, tons of bills, and not such great pay at a dead end job.

Hustler I got a triple black 96 with 50K on it. It took a bit of negotiating to get it but for 1500 it is mine. He is even going to install my front shocks/springs, swaybar with brace, Oil pan with return fitting and new motor mounts for me. I will swap my diff if required before I hand off my car to the insurance company. Then once I get all my other parts in the car and I am happy the 460cc injectors go in and a turbo. I just wish I had the car already I have missed a lot of top down days in these last couple of weeks.

I see a future full of bitch slapping Porsches getting closer every day!

I was also quite surprised not to hear some Asian twins joke from Hustler over my girls.

Now for the guy going on about Jews as a race vs. religion I will not comment on that in this forum.

jeeesus, are you donald trump?

No I have much better hair!

Almost any turbo is better then no turbo. Journal or ball bearing shouldnt even be an issue as response difference is bearly noticeable. On 2 equally tuned cars @ 250 HP is gonna feel better the 155HP non-turbo. anyways boost it and have fun. Damn it just started raining :(

I will join you for the bloodletting. I need a 250whp "runnin-buddy" for HHR.

I never thought to make jokes about your children...that's not exactly my style. Give me a little more credit. I stick to gay jokes and e-thugging because its harmless. If I had kids and some douche on the internet made fun of them, I'd be offended; if it were someone I let in my house, well, I'd invite him over for a beer...then chop his hands off, hang him from the ceiling, and get the steel-wool and pool-acid from the other thread and get to work. :) Sorry to digress and derail the thread.

I emailed begi last week about a diy kit, all i wanted was the manifold turbo and dp. They told me 1700. I closed the email and said "fuck off" in my head......A cast manifold, gt25 and a dp cost 1700 bucks???? LOL right........

Hustler...you are the reason I want to move to Texas...

the turbo is half of the cost in that equation.

yeah anything GT**** is gonna run around 700-800

Because then you would have spent 600 that could have been spent on a GT2560, used, but a GT2560 none the less with an arguably better reputation.

I'd rather pay a little more and get the s or ssm kit without cross over pipe then diy the IC and pipes

if Begi is happy with a chinacharger then I will be too

Unless they raise the prices of the turbo, or try to say it costs more (sort of like I expect they do with the GT turbos), the $250-$300 it should cost would be perfectly fine with me. Even if it only lasts the 10 months they have tested it, for that cost to me it would be worth it. A rebuild is only ~$100 (for me anyway). Not that much work every year or so. But I would expect to see much more life out of the turbo than that. I have seen on some other forums people having great success with some off brand turbochargers. But if they expect to get $1500 or more for one of these kits they are crazy. If its not at least ~$1200-$1400 for manifold, turbo, downpipe and maybe a few extra little bits, its not worth it. Seeing as the S kit minus a few options I dont need is only $1800ish.

I think the kit should be around 1000 even :dunno:

I think it should be free, but yeah, $1000 would surely work. Manifold $450-$500, downpipe $500-$550 for the S/G in 3'' outlet, and turbo surely no more than $300-$400 after any modifications needed to make it bolt up and FIT correctly. So I would still be happy with $1200 for something as simple as that, leaving the rest of the minor parts for the person buying. I can fix up my own intercooler, and already have the lines and other bits.

I wonder if its going to be a T3 or T25 based turbine. Surely they would have it so it works with all of their existing parts.

There are a variety of emotions here regarding the turbos made in China.

My reading hobby for the last 40 years has been World War II, and world history since then. The years since paint a variety of pictures regarding what China is and ain't. It remains a bit tough to be happy with those guys, but the ones I have become acquainted with are the same as myself, trying to earn a living and save to retirement.

Politically, send them south....... but if they are good craftsmen and can make a proper turbocharger that offers enthusiasts a less expensive performance option, and keeps their working class employed without serious political disadvantage to America, then go for it. Almost all American Corporations share the same feelings..... even Garrett.

The whole gamut of turbos are available, BB's and all. While our tests have been rather limited, all remain positive as of today.

The net result is: .... we shall see what we shall see....

Turbo: $800
Manifold: $400
Downpipe: $500

Doing it right the first time: Priceless

The Shanghai kits will have turbo comparable to the GT2554, GT2560, T3, and GT2860. I have been told they are ball bearing and oil/water cooled. That will be confirmed again before posting on the website though.

Tim has had the china charger on his car for 10 months. It is equivalent to the GT2860. He reports that the spool is not as good as his previous turbo, but I think he was able to assist that with a boost response valve (that we are testing now to put into production).

Yes, the long term reliability is still unknown. But the thought behind it is, if it breaks, it is cheap enough to replace.
Stephanie

Ball bearing!? I would have figured journal bearing. Those are my thoughts too, cheap is good, even if the quality and longevity lacks compared to Garrett pieces, its still much cheaper.

looooool

if we're ever in prison together, I'll protect you.

Why do I have a feeling, your version of protecting me requires my holding your pocket liner?

http://shots.ikbis.com/image/25814/b...BOXZbnQpSs.jpg

The major problem with the chinachargers, that I have researched, is that when they copy the turbos, they dont copy them exactly. Example. The wheel diameters of both turbine and compressor that arent even close to what garrett offers for the given turbo, on other turbos the compressor and turbine combination is wrong(small turbine, huge compressor).For example. The T25 they offer is smaller then the GT2554. The T28 they offer is larger then then GT2860RS and but has a smaller turbine.

This is what I have gotten from reading the sellers sites and what people have measured and comparing it to PDF's on Garretts Site. Its strange stuff.

No doubt. This would be consistent with the reports of people contacting various eBay sellers asking for things like compressor maps, and being told they'd have to determine those themselves. (?!) To me, that sort of thing is a much bigger barrier to accepting these turbos than questions about metallurgy and machining quality. The Chinese, as a whole, have gotten quite good at producing reasonably well-finished machine parts in recent years. They're building cars, for crying out loud, and while they haven't yet gotten the hang of little things like passenger safety and handling, those fall into the realm of design deficiencies, rather than manufacturing quality.

At least buying one from Bell, I'd have a degree of confidence that they've already done the work of researching the specs and supplying turbos whose size and flow characteristics are reasonably well understood and matched appropriately to the application. Depending upon where the prices settle out, I'd probably consider buying one for my next car.

IN for a cheap copy of a 2560 to play with for under $300.

Heh, I'm actually ok with this given my power goals.. interesting.

If it is indeed smaller, it is going to run out of steam quick. It'll spool at idle however.

Couldnt one have the housing machined to accept garrett wheels. Not sure how much that kind of machining would cost though, and if it would be worth the costs. Or is it more the design of the housings thats an issue with power and spool? Either way, Im still interested if they are ~$300 or less.

Don't forget the $139 ChinaCharger thrill ride that DVCN created:




and his build thread for those who want more details:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t11402/

wtf? it didn't explode or spew smoke or anything.

weak video.

LOL, 37 seconds, SON OF A BITCH!!! Looks like fun.

Any specs on the car?

Also, I see that his has laster almost a year at least ,since the first video is early '08, and he has another fromk November of '08

Simply from a manufacturing standpoint, turbos aren't really that complicated... 1 moving part. The tolerances are tight, sure, but I don't think I would have a problem giving a china charger a try if maximum efficiency wasn't my goal.

I disagree. But still, design is critical too. If it's not designed correctly, it will fail regardless of the material selection or manufacturing process.

Ever seen a Chinese tractor? Obviously not, or you wouldn't hold such opinions. It's amazing where they'll cheap out on a part. Say a Ford or Massey' has a 1 lb cast iron 1" OD piece of round stock that's tapped 1/2-13 for the shift lever to screw into. The Chinese tractor has a piece of 1/2" OD SINTERED STEEL with a 10mm fine thread that's not as deep as the ford piece. Shift it hard once, the sintered steel piece breaks. Of course the handle for the shifter gets loose because they a) didn't lock tite the part and b) didn't machine the threads correctly, c) used something too small to stay tight in the first place. So when you tighten it you either a)strip the threads, b)crack the sintered steel piece. Real world experience BTW. I had to make a new one in a mill to send for a guy who had broken 2 of the china-special ones.

I've seen WAYYY to much bullshit come from china to believe they know what the hell they're doing. It's cheap first, everything else second. Hell, go to wallmart and look at some of the shit made in china. Like a barbque grill for example. Bring a caliper and see how thin some of the shit is. They'll use four 8mm bolts to support the stand that holds a 80 pound grill. Or just bend a piece of sheet metal over on its edge and call that a stop for the hinge that keeps a 30 pound lid from flipping backwards. (note hinge is two 8mm bolt that goes through two 12mm holes that are cast, not machined). I mean seriously, they produce almost nothing that's worth a damn. And it's not hard to see.

I could list a million other examples. Chinese sensors, alternators, water pumps, electronics, anything made of metal. Some of their stuff is "ok" and it's true that most consumers in general want a cheap part. But some things should not be done quiet so cheaply. A dresser made in china is one thing. A torsion bar, shock absorber, pitman arm, crankshaft, turbo, U-joint, any gears, etc are a few examples of things from China I wouldn't want.

Look at it from a thermodynamic standpoint. What's the one moving part btw? The internal wastegate arm? Or the lever that's attached to it? There's two moving parts they've probably got figured out.