BorgWarner EFR Turbos
 

http://www.full-race.com/articles/bo...fr-turbos.html

Makes me want to ditch my billet turbo, and get one of these. Sounds so sick, and advanced.

"All EFR turbochargers use Extended Tip Forged Milled Compressor Wheels ***AKA Billet Compressor Wheels*** These billet EFR compressor wheels are manufactured from forged aluminum for maximum strength and light weight, then CNC machined on a 6-axis CNC Mill. The The blade geometry utilizes State-of-the-Art aerodynamics that delivers efficiency, boost capability and surge limits beyond any turbo we have ever seen.

EFR turbo compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV. Yes, you read that right - the BOV is a recirculating style *built-in* to the Compressor Housing. The major performance advantage in this design is that it redirects the high-pressure compressed air from the outlet of the compressor wheel -> right at the low-pressure inlet of the turbo. This helps to keep the turbo spooled between shifts and offers cost savings/convenience while keeping MAF-based engine mgt happy. With this in place, there is no need for a BOV or flange on the charge piping. Of course for the hardcore racers who want to use an external traditional BOV, the EFR line up has that as well.

For applications which use electronic boost control, an Electronic Boost Control Solenoid (EBCS) is integrated into the compressor housing. This solenoid is truly OEM quality and uses an industry standard fuel injector plug, making it easy to connecting to multiple boost control systems. Of course if the hardcore racers want to use an external solenoid OR a manual boost controller (without the integrated EBCS), that is very easy to do."

BW has been gaining popularity like crazy lately. In just about every car market.

I'll be running the S252, my friend has this on his VW and the spool is amazing!!! he had the garrett 50 trim and hated it.
some pics we took

Is this Borg Warner's release party to catch up to Garrett's 20-year old technology? :giggle:

Wow a BOV built into the compressor housing! The stock mitsubishi turbo in my almost 20 year old volvo has that! Way to be proud of something 20 years old Borg Warner.

It looks like their goal to make the cheap components as expensive as possible. I like the strategy of producing products that no one asked for.

Say what you want, BW turbos are a better bang for buck than Garrett imo

If you know what to look for you can have a 450hp turbo like s252 for $400 not really possible with garrett if you ask me.

True, way better bang for your buck and have held up very well from what I told. They perform the same--if not better than a Garrett while being non-BB is a feat I think.

Garrett bb<BW jb<Garrett jb

I have seen tests from completely different companies confirming them performing just as well as, and spooling just as quickly as, ball bearing garretts. When a JB performs like a BB that is an accomplishment IMO

Yep.. The BW stuff is actually very good..

Bump
 

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...2_191976_n.jpg



Very good article -->http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ature-set.aspx

I will be giving a BW a try if my 15g ever gets boring or just gives up on life.

The new efrs are indeed ball bearing. I am going to get a 7670 twinscroll internal wastegate. The GTX35 is an alternative but would require two external wastegates.

I don't give too much of a shit about integrated bov but the Ti turbine plus billet wheel plus IWG plus twinscroll sounds like madness. Hopefully 35psi @ 3000rpm with flow up to 600hp of madness.

35psi @ 3k? lol pass that shit, don't mess up rotation

seems a bit optimistic, twin scrolls are the shit though.

Thank god faeflora left us that beautiful post :jerkit:


I'll be running a 6258 or 6758 in the summer. A little update on my hot side and I'll be golden.

I would never in a million years have guessed that a internal waste gate could keep up with a external, let alone be *better.

Oh they are great, no doubt.
But even if he figured out a way to get it to really hit that hard that soon he'd have to drive around on some 26" slicks or something....And then replace all driveline components past the engine.

would be fun to watch though.
esp if he broke out the sawzall again:giggle:

THIS


In all seriousness though, these things are going to be serious game changers for a lot of people and racing companies. When I read that Sierra Sierra was switching to EFR turbos I was pretty much nutted.

I can't wait to "clean up" and get all my *archaic* :giggle: turbo stuff sold and go with the future.

I'll more than likely be driving around on 225/50/15 DR's so I will enjoy the boost hit.

Yes, it does. I would be happy with 15psi at 3K rpm which from some twin scroll dyno charts I've seen is possible.


Yes, this is my only concern. That the IWG will not be able to keep up. I did speak with the full race guys who have held the twin scroll IWG turbos in their hands though. I asked them if there was a lot of material around the IWG if it needed to be ported. They said YES so even if it does creep, hopefully it can be fixed.




Are you going to get a twinscroll?

I agree. If the turbo is sized correctly for your motor size/power goals/etc...you should see some nice gains in spool, especially with your bigger motor.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. But after reading that chart and info that was posted on the Full-Race face book page, I think I am pretty much sold on it. The turbo they tested has a 42mm internal....my external is only 35mm

With the integrated bov and internal waste gate, that is two less things that need lines and two less things that can potentially be a nuisance. My waste gate is in the same spot as yours...you know what a pain the dick it is to work with it.


Not at this point in time. I don't see the need. Would I look to? Yes. But the twin scroll turbos are designed to exceed 600 horsepower and that is just way above what I am looking for this year.

The B series frames are good for over 400 and that is plenty for me. I just want to build my car for consistent passes in the 12.5-12.0 range and daily duty. Will it be perfect? Who knows, maybe not. But I still want to find out and see.

I was going to slap on a 2871 and call it a day, but then I started reading about the EFRs. It would cost me over a grand to buy a new 2871. If I sold my bov and waste gate I could have the difference in money for the EFR.

If you know the story of the princess and the pea, that is what our ewg is. I actually have to remove the damn wg pipe to take my turbo out of the car.

Yes the size of the ewg is a big selling point, from a tehorethtical I mean theoretical perspective. The tial 3xmm gate I have now is indeed frikken smaller.

Oh. Only other consideration is the size of the darn thing. The 7670 is 18fucking inches from compressor inlet to turbine outlet flange!!!!!!!!! That plus bov+wg can = BIG FUCKING BASTARD.

I may have to trim the rear engine bay frame. This time no sawzall tho. I will use a sledgehammer.

Make me want to sell my HTA3582R for one.

I think it would be worth it, I am selling my billet 5857 for one.

Wut? Which model and type are you thinking of?

My S252 gives me many :) :) :). It is a crazy turbo!!! At 11psi it pulls and between shifts there is 0 lag. Basically the wastegate stays open! I highly recommend BW. My super 60 was way laggier with a 48AR.

Musanovic, any chance we can get a few pictures of your setup with the S252?

How do you like the quality of the turbo? Any issues at all?

That sucks. I undo two v-band clamps and my turbo is out in about 4 minutes - and the rest of the kit stays in the car, including the downpipe and EWG dump tube.

I'm calling bullshit unless you post a photo of a 7670 with a tape measure next to it. The head flange is only 14-15" long.

How about a technicalish drawing from mama borg:

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...install-39.pdf

From the PDF:

Attachment 241409

Look at that shit!!!!

Woops bad math on my part but it is still 14.7 inches!!!!

yes turbo does hit hood just a bit. This exhaust housing makes it sit a bit higher.

bad video included that is 10 psi 0 at 4,000 rpm 10 at 4,500.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuL632KbOQ

Umm, from that picture 6.25+4.79=11.04 not 14.7

I think the Absurdflow setups are still in a different category. But as I've learned on this forum, track car =/= street car. If the EFR came with a v-band inlet that would be tits, but completely overkill for most street cars. Especially with the new Inconel studs from TSE:giggle: Which I will most certainly have.

This is one of the reasons why I want to make a change on the hot side. All the EFR's are 3"(smaller frames) v-band exhaust housings and.................no more bottom mount external waste gate!!!!!! I've got the construction and tear-down process down to a science but I don't want all the extra shit anymore. Especially when my external is smaller than the new internal :crx:

Wow, that is nice. If anything, the EFR is supposed to spool faster the the S-series...but that is just awesome.

Thanks for the post. I have a friend who is going for a S256 on hit 1.8t golf, I'll make sure I forward this video to him.

Fucking damnit shit on my cock. Well that sizing is good news.

Where can you get these and what type will compare to a gt2554 or gt2560?

Right.. There is no turbo that small.
Also they aren't that cheap: starting at $1400.

Compressor:
Inducer: 51mm
Exducer: 69mm

Turbine:
Inducer: 70mm
Exducer: 61mm
43 lbs/min

Full-Race is the place to get them. The closest thing to a small frame garrett would be the EFR 6258, and that still blows the 2554, 2560, 2860 and 2871 out the water.

6258 is .64a/r t25 flanged. Full-Race says it's good for 200-440hp

* Compressor Type: Forged-Milled Wheel (FMW) Extended Tip
* Compressor Wheel OD (exducer): 62mm
* Compressor Wheel Inducer: 49.6mm
* Max Flow Rate: 44 lb/min
* Built-in BOV: All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV.
* Compressor Housing: 2.5" inlet, 2.0" hose coupler outlet.


You're correct, they are not cheap. But not too much more than a ball bearing garrett and better performance all around. Plus you get the integrated features with the EFR series.

I could maybe possibly get the S252 for 900.

No T2 foot print :vash:

Hopefully they will have some nice shiz in the 1 series.

EDIT: This would be awesome.

http://www.full-race.com/articles/bo..._09_CAT-14.jpg

efr bearing vs gt bearing!
http://motoiq.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Col...24_5GkwA-M.jpg

I thought I would be flamed, marked as newbee and so on. Are you seriously saying that if you do a side to side test with the smallest B&W and the gt2554, the B&W would outperform the T25 in any way?
I agree on the extra bits. I like the all-in-one solution. And it is worth the extra investment.
Would this turbo bolt on to a s4 header and still clear the PS and AC?
Next problem is the downpipe. Is it to far backwards to get it right?

Who knows, honestly. These turbos are very new and I haven't seen what they do on a B6 or BP. Will a B1 frame EFR spool as fast as a 2554? Maybe not, but they will be capable of making over 100hp more than a 2554.

True. But then again it really depends on what equipment you are running with already. I have external waste gate and a nice blow off valve, so do I need to get rid of those for a EFR when I can run a compact gt3071 and call it a day? Just things I will need to figure out.

If it's a t2 foot print, it will work just fine. But the turbine outlet on the EFR turbos are all 3" v-band, so the S4 down pipe will need to be modded. Also depends on the over all length of the turbo for accessory clearance.

Attention Fags and Man-whores:

Photographic evidence has surfaced of an EFR turbo installed on an NA Miata. The owner may or may not be an engineer at Borg Warner.

I am stalking have attempted to sodomize contact the aforementioned individual. I am certain he will respond positively to my bribe gift of tentacle rape porn a bag of Cheetos.

That is all.

Followed up with an email to Full Race about that Miata as well, as well as poking them for updates. It's been two months since I last spoke to them.

I have been discussing EFR testing on a Miata with an unnamed individual for about a month now. He asked me not to post any of his findings publicly. I will post more when I can.

No ones mentioned the EFR 6255, too small?

Found another place to get the efr turbos.

http://www.himni-racing.com/index.ph...4du6rol0h80qh7

It wouldn’t surprise me it this thing would make 40 or 50 more hp and spool ~600 rpm sooner than my GT3071R, Have better transitional response as well. Damit I wish I was in need of a new turbo now instead of a year and a half ago.

Anybody want to give me one and Ill test it?

Bob

I'd say you're pretty close Bob. :)

I have been having a discussion pertinent to this thread with an unamed individual for a good amount of time. I however, am not at liberty to discuss any of this thread-relevant information that you might be interested in. I hope this helps.

Noice. If anyone noticed, they also sell the twinscroll housings for the GTX. Now that would be a decent showdown.

Check that out. They sell twinscroll housings for the 6258... Hmm.

Yes, but it's a T4 foot print and .92 a/r

.....and that makes it nearly $1700 dollars.

Care to elaborate?

I'm sure this isn't the model that is being discussed, but someone mentioned wanting a S252. I cam across this site, and the $584 price tag seems good.

http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=9776

What is your HP goal Nagase?

http://www.himni-racing.com/index.ph...4du6rol0h80qh7

Follow that link and you will see a drop menu to select turbine housing.

I know, I know. I wonder if there's any effective difference in spool between the .64 and the .92 if one is twin scroll though.

Efr
 

Got an email from Full-Race today saying the 6255 is now discontinued because the 6258 made more power with almost the exact same response time. Full race gets another shipment of 6258s in next week and one of them is mine. ;)
I had a precision 5130 on pre-order since November 2010. I called today and they still had no ETA so i canceled my order and went with BorgWarner instead.

1.22 exhaust AR. Good luck. ....

With twin-scroll, you basically have to throw out your pre-conceived notions on A/R sizing. You can't make a good comparison between a single and twinscroll housing, even if the TS is much larger.