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Buy Parts First and Ask Questions Later: shopping list and plan for the 1.6

Old 09-13-2018, 08:21 PM
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Default Buy Parts First and Ask Questions Later: shopping list and plan for the 1.6

Hi everyone.

I've been lurking for quite a while and have finally nutted up to get my 1990 1.6 turbocharged.

The short term goal is to get the car running on a conservative tune with low psi (~5-7) with MSPNP, I'm hoping to make at least 150whp. The biggest cheap-out I'm doing on this build is not upgrading the clutch. Thus, my power goal is as much as I can make without slipping an OEM 1.6 clutch. Which I hope to be at least 150.

I've finally started ordering parts and wanted to get a build thread up here and start documenting before I get to work.

SHOPPING LIST/PURCHASED LIST
Engine Management/Fuel stuffCold Side StuffTurbo and Hot Side Stuff
  • ISR T25 Turbo - replacement for SR20DET turbo ($380 new) https://www.enjukuracing.com/product...n-sr20det.html - PURCHASED
    • exhaust flange holes will need to be drilled to fit 10mm studs
  • Kraken T25 Manifold + 2.5" downpipe + lines + fittings ($900 shipped) - PURCHASED
    • This is where I am balling out the most, really didn't want to spend this much but for such an nice package and for all those threads I've seen that say never cheap out on the manifold.... I'm springing for the kraken.
  • Borla 2.5" single outlet catback (had this on the car for about a year now just wanted to include in the build list)
So this totals right around $2600 which is about $600 more than I wanted to spend. I'm holding off on buying the turbo just in case a used turbo off a SR20 pops up on here or zilvia. I doubt it will though so any cost-reduction advice on this is welcome.

If I'm missing parts, that is cost-inflation advice which I don't appreciate as much but is nonetheless welcome I suppose.

Edit 10/8:
Powertrain Stuff:
  • FM Level 1 Clutch: $400 - PURCHASED
  • 1.8 Diff/driveshaft/axles - i will buy this when my diff blows up
  • Wheels and Tires - holding off on these as well in order to prolong my diff's lifespan. also trying not to launch at all.
Misc stuff I've had to tack on:
  • Turbo flanges/fittings: ~$50 PURCHASED
  • Gaskets for turbo manifold and exhaust linkage: ~$60 PURCHASED
  • Intercooler piping: aluminum pipes from silicone intakes ($100), silicone couplers from ebay ($50) -- PURCHASED

Last edited by dantrapp; 10-10-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:06 AM
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That's the wrong intercooler much better for not much more money out there. Search the forums you'll find the info.

That particular BOV is junk and will leak. Search the forum and you'll find tons of examples of this and what folks go to that works.

Definitely wait and find a used SR20 turbo, much more reliable and easy to rebuild. Again search the forums for why.

Should have bought a MS3, much better boost control prepare to fight it, get frustrated, sell it and get a MS3. Search the forums for more info as to why.

Did I mention you should search the forums?
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:09 AM
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You've got your priorities wrong. You're going to end up with more than one problem and a broken car. Build the supporting modifications first, then add the turbo. It will cost you more than you have budgeted because you have not allowed for the miscellaneous parts you will need to actually assemble everything. Having done this a few times all I can say is this better not be your only car.

I have a strong clutch and pressure plate for a 1.8 car that will hold over 300 horsepower that just came out of my car when I upgraded to the BMW transmission. I haven't listed it for sale but I will sell it to you for 80 bucks plus actual freight. You will just need to source a used 1.8 flywheel from somebody who's upgrading. You should be able to get that for nearly free plus freight from someone. Its an ACT XTSS, used but with good life left.

After you put in the clutch you will destroy your 1.6 rear differential and need to find a 1.8 rear diff axles and driveshaft. I have none of those.

And you don't need a blow off valve. Completely unnecessary. Wasted money and eBay ones leak boost regularly. No need for a blow off valve at less than 12 or 15 psi.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Build the supporting modifications first, then add the turbo .... Having done this a few times all I can say is this better not be your only car.
So, like I said, the stage 1 goal is to get 150hp to the wheels on stock clutch, trans, rear diff, and axles. Which is doable. When I want to bring the power level up I will do so alongside drivetrain upgrades. FM happy meal, Torsen, the works.


This is not my only car and I understand that this will not be a simple weekend project for me. However I am budgeted for this stage and believe I am skimping where safely allowable. In terms of the BOV, sure, I will get rid of that. The MSPNP is non-negotiable as of right now though, MS3 is simply out of my price range.


My MS, injectors, manifold, and downpipe should all be delivered this week. I'm gonna get the car running/idling on MS with a temporary intake and wideband installed, then do injectors. I'll be back when something breaks!

Keep the replies coming though, please. I'm actually surprised how easy you guys went on me.

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Old 09-14-2018, 10:41 AM
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"Hey Guys,
I'm planning on doing something that has been common knowledge for the better part of a decade to be the opposite of how you should approach things. Please tell me it's going to be awesome.
Love,
Dan"


GL fam.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:59 AM
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You can't really eliminate $600 from your budget, the biggest savings I see is to get a SR20 turbo instead of the $380 "new" one. That saves $280, but if it needs a rebuild, your savings drops to $180. Other than that your intercooler is too big, and with a budget setup don't forget to try 2" hot side, it might be a lot easier to route. Also you'll need to budget for compressor housing inlet/outlet flanges.
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:00 AM
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My 1.6 clutch held 3psi on a JRSC setup (I wanted tontest the supercharger before the car went down for thr winter for engine out and clutch). But, it was worn to the rivits on one side. Didn't have any indication that the clutch was that done even making 100rwhp (dynojet) with a megasquirt. Do a clutch.

The rear end will hold up for a while at your low boost goals with some mechanical empathy (or if you get cheap allseasons to act like a fuse!). I have about 8k miles at 145rwhp (virtualdyno) on my 1.6 VLSD. But I was nice to it. My friend had more than that at about 160-180rwhp, but he had 700 tread wear all seasons. So they broke loose easy rather than shock the diff. Do plan on having a tow available and a diff ready to go in.

You don't even need a boost gauge. But it's fun to have. Any will work.

Do you have a wideband?
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
ďLove,
Dan"


GL fam.
As if I would leave love on this forum... nah, all you guys get is budget checks and tears from me.

Seriously though, Iíve read the wiki, countless build threads, and am familiar with the process. Is everyoneís biggest gripe really the fact that the car will be running low boost BEFORE clutch and rear end? If the poster below you is correct I will consider sixshooterís offer of the 1.8 clutch but I was under the impression I could run 150hp gently with no issues on the rear end. I do have the vlsd for what itís worth.

As far as I can tell Iím not that far off from the mt.net standard procedure. Wideband, MS, injectors, cast manifold, intercooler, and FINALLY (last) decent (non-ebay) turbo.


I dont want to act like I know more than I do, but (here comes the classic first turbo build quote) I donít want to push the budget more than itís required run the car safely.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:48 PM
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I had a m45 blower for a short while, clutch wouldn't hold the power on a shift at 5 PSI. If I would shift and then roll on the throttle it would hold but just barely.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bronson M View Post
I had a m45 blower for a short while, clutch wouldn't hold the power on a shift at 5 PSI. If I would shift and then roll on the throttle it would hold but just barely.

oh ****. Six shooter, Iím dming you about that clutch
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dantrapp View Post
I dont want to act like I know more than I do, but (here comes the classic first turbo build quote) I donít want to push the budget more than itís required run the car safely.
Too late on both counts, unfortunately
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
the biggest savings I see is to get a SR20 turbo instead of the $380 "new" one. That saves $280
"$380 for new trubo; get used and save $280" means you're only paying $100 for an SR20? Where can you get a used SR20 that you can run without rehab for a hunksi? You guys keep saying this, but the cheapest I've seen were $300 with stuff like "minimal shaft play" which isn't confidence inspiring.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:18 PM
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alright update after week 1:

DIYPNP was delivered monday. Got it assembled that night and installed the next day. Had a bit of trouble getting the OEM ECU out of the passenger footwell as the bolts on the bottom of the plate were completely seized. Ended up cutting the kickplate and brackets. I will probably try to mount the PNP in the glovebox or under the dash somewhere because it's rust city under the carpet.


So yesterday I installed the IAT sensor, the wideband, and got the car running after a little troubleshooting. Flashing the firmware and basemap was no big deal, the documentation on diyautotune and trubokitty were very helpful (albeit slightly contradictory). One point of confusion was the fuel pump circuit. I saw a lot of threads where people had different solutions to the same problem. Some people fried their ST SIG fuse because they didn't read. Some people had to jump the diagnostics box, some people had to jump the AFM connector, some people had to build a custom circuit on their mainboard. I just popped a jumper into the AFM cable and it started right up. AFRs were **** (10s) because I had forgotten to get a vacuum line to plug into the map sensor on the PNP. I will be doing that today and doing my first real study sesh on tuning.

Also, I ordered the ISR T25 today from enjuku racing. Ended up being $380 shipped with their promo. I wanted to hold out for the used garrett but I just can't seem to find one. I will update again after the next major installation.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:43 PM
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Spending all that money to make 150hp is retarded. Why can't people just save and be patient? Then while doing so, learn more. You will always learn, that what you initially thought was a good route, isn't and that if you only saved and waited longer. You would have a much better thought out build, with parts that work, don't fail, and people would buy from you later on. The car really needs to be set up with all chassis maintenance and upgrades before making more power so it drives properly and you don't just hurt it.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Spending all that money to make 150hp is retarded. Why can't people just save and be patient? Then while doing so, learn more. You will always learn, that what you initially thought was a good route, isn't and that if you only saved and waited longer. You would have a much better thought out build, with parts that work, don't fail, and people would buy from you later on. The car really needs to be set up with all chassis maintenance and upgrades before making more power so it drives properly and you don't just hurt it.
Everything he has purchased/listed will be fine at 200+ whp. The only thing he's really going to be missing is a 1.8 diff. If he wants to role the dice at 150whp and upgrade later I don't see the problem.

I don't seem to understand your point.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:39 PM
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Point would be, boosting on oem parts known to fail without boost. Just to be turbo'd now. Instead up upgrading breakable parts and saving for some better parts than what he has listed. Or even just buying a better MS would be a better choice. I didn't say anything about the parts list not being enough for that power level.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Spending all that money to make 150hp is retarded. Why can't people just save and be patient? Then while doing so, learn more. You will always learn, that what you initially thought was a good route, isn't and that if you only saved and waited longer. You would have a much better thought out build, with parts that work, don't fail, and people would buy from you later on. The car really needs to be set up with all chassis maintenance and upgrades before making more power so it drives properly and you don't just hurt it.
He needs all of the same stuff to make 200+ so I don't see how he's wasting money.

All of the parts he has purchased are totally acceptable and easy to re-sell.

Literally the ONLY thing that isn't MT.net approved is running boost on a 1.6 diff. Which again, he knows the consequences.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
He needs all of the same stuff to make 200+ so I don't see how he's wasting money.

All of the parts he has purchased are totally acceptable and easy to re-sell.

Literally the ONLY thing that isn't MT.net approved is running boost on a 1.6 diff. Which again, he knows the consequences.
Except he's cheaping out on the ecu, buying second hand injectors, ebay bov, ebay gauge, ISR turbo, ebay IC. Fuel system sounds like it's all stock, so tired pump, single feed rail. Didn't mention a reroute or cooling upgrades. IMO I would be saving while doing some of the mandatory upgrades and looking for kits to pop up or buy less throwaway parts and buy better reliable stuff slowly. I'm aware thousands have thrown bullshit together in hope for it to last a while until they can afford to upgrade further.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Except he's cheaping out on the ecu, buying second hand injectors, ebay bov, ebay gauge, ISR turbo, ebay IC. Fuel system sounds like it's all stock, so tired pump, single feed rail. Didn't mention a reroute or cooling upgrades. IMO I would be saving while doing some of the mandatory upgrades and looking for kits to pop up or buy less throwaway parts and buy better reliable stuff slowly. I'm aware thousands have thrown bullshit together in hope for it to last a while until they can afford to upgrade further.
A MS2 is totally fine and a reasonable place to skimp. He won't make more power with a MS3, his engine won't be any safer etc. Second hand injectors can be flow tested and at that point I'd trust them as much as new. I've already shared my thoughts on the BOV. The boost gauge doesn't matter. I, and many others don't even run one. ISR turbo is semi-legitimate and it's coming from a fully legitimate retailer. WTF could you possibly see wrong with ebay intercooler?
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:59 PM
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We obviously aren't seeing eye to eye and that's fine. I would disagree about his engine being safer or even making more power(more safely) with the MS3 over a older version, which he doesn't state is a MS2. Boost gauges are not all accurate, and yes I am aware it's not a necessity. I didn't say he needed one. Though a boost gauge is handy as far as letting you know if you have a boost leak or vacuum leak. Can you stop acting as if I stated certain things? ISR is top tier ebay. Have you never compared ebay intercoolers to quality units like Precision, treadstone, OEM, BEGI, FM? I am well aware there are some properly designed cores floating around and many use them on budgeted builds. But all I have seen have been so poorly fabricated and designed I would never waste $100 on one again. Lightweight thin crap.
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