Ceramic coating questions - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-26-2008, 04:13 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,382
Total Cats: 43
Default Ceramic coating questions

I can't seem to find a 100% definite answer on this..

Found a local shop to do ceramic coatings and I'm curious to WHAT I should have coated and what not. What I was thinking is the turbine housing outside, inside, wheel, manifold inside and outside.

Yes / No to the above, and why? Thanks!
elesjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2008, 11:18 AM   #2
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 406
Default

never heard of coating the wheel.

and the only thing i've seen (unconfirmed / uncorroborated) is that coating the inside of the mani and housing can lead to flake off going through the turbine section.

I think my manifold IS coated on the inside. fwiw.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2008, 02:14 PM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 395
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
...Found a local shop to do ceramic coatings and I'm curious to WHAT I should have coated and what not. What I was thinking is the turbine housing outside, inside, wheel, manifold inside and outside...
Share bitch! My coating wish list is the same.

I've read about some RX-7 club guys use a company called Turblown for coating the areas you suggested.

Some pics of coating said parts here:
http://www.nothingained.com/turblown...s/coatings.htm

Actual website here:
http://www.turblown.net/coat.html

They use Polydyn ceramic exhaust coatings and claim a surface thickness of only 0.0002" - 0.0007", compared to say SwainTech's WhiteLightning which is about 0.015" thick.

I have no definitive answer to your question, but FWIW SwainTech rags on everybody else's coasting as either being just pretty paint and/or too thin to be an effective insulator. They also do exterior only on turbine housings and manifolds claiming its not possible to get good adhesion on interior surfaces. Something about the difficulty of sand blasting interior surfaces at a 90* angle.
MazDilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2008, 04:08 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,382
Total Cats: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MazDilla View Post
Share bitch! My coating wish list is the same.

I've read about some RX-7 club guys use a company called Turblown for coating the areas you suggested.

Some pics of coating said parts here:
http://www.nothingained.com/turblown...s/coatings.htm

Actual website here:
http://www.turblown.net/coat.html

They use Polydyn ceramic exhaust coatings and claim a surface thickness of only 0.0002" - 0.0007", compared to say SwainTech's WhiteLightning which is about 0.015" thick.

I have no definitive answer to your question, but FWIW SwainTech rags on everybody else's coasting as either being just pretty paint and/or too thin to be an effective insulator. They also do exterior only on turbine housings and manifolds claiming its not possible to get good adhesion on interior surfaces. Something about the difficulty of sand blasting interior surfaces at a 90* angle.
No access to the inside of the turbine and manifold makes sense, I'm not sure how you'd get a sandblasting gun in most areas of those parts. Also totally forgot there were other locals to me here.

I posted on a KC Crotch rocket site asking if anyone knew of a place, and a guy that works for the ford plant forwarded me to his best friend who does ceramic coatings of firearm receivers and such..

http://www.ultracoatingsinc.com/


Then another guy chimed in and suggested this place where he had his intake manifold, headers and some other stuff coated: Powder Coat Plus Llc Excelsior Springs,MO Tel. (816) 863-4420.

Haven't called either yet, been pretty busy
elesjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2008, 03:52 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

What I found so far from the research I've been doing is that you don't want to coat the inside of the housing due to reasons posted above.
On a turbo car, you want to coat the manifold and exhaust housing with a heat retaining coating, many names for it with various companies, but they all generaly do the same thing. Everyone I talked to claims they are superior, Calico is the only one that I felt was being honest when they said "it's all the same ****, it's all about how you apply it." They are kinda close to me, so I think I'll go with them, and they have been in business for longer than I have been alive.
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 12:53 AM   #6
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

yes caot autside manifold hotside dp etc good. Caot inside could be good but is dangerous so i recomend you do like i did and just caot the outside of everything hotside and you will be good to go. FWIW powder caoting and ceramic caoting while similar are not the same. If you powder caot your manifold etc that **** is gonna melt off fast. But if you ceramic caot that bitch it will dramatically reduce the radiant, and contact heat to stuff in your engine bay making everything else happier. And trap more heat energy into the hotside making you happier with better spool etc. The shop that did my stuff has since gone out of business i think but they charged me bout 250 $ to do all my turbine mani dp stuff and did great work.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 11:06 AM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

IMHO I think its a waste of time that will produce no visible or measurable results and it seems to be a mostly aesthetic modification.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 11:17 AM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
IMHO I think its a waste of time that will produce no visible or measurable results and it seems to be a mostly aesthetic modification.
It has been proven otherwise, do you have some data to back your claim?
Ceramic coatings help quiet a bit, think about efficiency as well.
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 01:07 PM   #9
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

For example sam i can take my DP after caoting and take a propane torch to it and hold my hand inside right by the spot where the torch is touching it outside and i will not get burned. The ceramic is simply very effeceint at heat blockage man.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 04:26 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
It has been proven otherwise, do you have some data to back your claim?
Ceramic coatings help quiet a bit, think about efficiency as well.
Do you have data to prove it does work?

I highly doubt a ceramic coating alone will produce a faster spool on say a GT2554 which is already stupid fast.

Heat retention, yatta yatta, reducing ambient heat output maybe, sure. But as for producing a performance advantage, youre gonna have to sell me because I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
For example sam i can take my DP after caoting and take a propane torch to it and hold my hand inside right by the spot where the torch is touching it outside and i will not get burned. The ceramic is simply very effeceint at heat blockage man.
I guess thats why they use ceramic on the space shuttle.

Last edited by Saml01; 05-28-2008 at 04:41 PM.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 04:41 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Do you have data to prove it does work?
Quit being ignorant man, there is a boat load of information on ceramic coatings and their effects. There are also several different types of coatings with different properties. Do some searching, or would you like for me to take you by the hand and take you there?
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 04:47 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Quit being ignorant man, there is a boat load of information on ceramic coatings and their effects. There are also several different types of coatings with different properties. Do some searching, or would you like for me to take you by the hand and take you there?

------, you offered so heres my hand , take me there.

I spent like 10 min googling and couldnt turn up anything.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

Don't have a lot of time, but for starters, read everything you can find on this site
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10969
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:14 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
------, you offered so heres my hand , take me there.

I spent like 10 min googling and couldnt turn up anything.
You trying to sound all gansta ghetto? Or are you a racist ****?
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:15 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

here is more for you, now read it and weep bitch

http://www.ceramicindustry.com/CDA/A...00000000207152
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

http://www.zircotec.org/page/benefits/6

sad thing is, these showed up in google search with keyword "benefits of ceramic coating" , how do you not find info on google?
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
You trying to sound all gansta ghetto? Or are you a racist ****?
racist

god damn jews
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:53 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
here is more for you, now read it and weep bitch

http://www.ceramicindustry.com/CDA/A...00000000207152
99% of the article is talking about reducing underhood temperatures due to exhaust gas and safegaurding electrical components from heat.

Literally 2 lines are from a subaru engineer saying that their ceramic manifolds and downpipes in the impreza help the turbo spool 300 rpm sooner. I think thats a crock of marketing bullshit. Want to make an impreza spool faster?, get rid of the shitty downpipe that looks like a Begi S pipe and turn it into a bell mouth. Not to mention the stupid pre cats.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:54 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Don't have a lot of time, but for starters, read everything you can find on this site
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10969
5 lines in this entire article about how keeping the temperature in improves exhaust gas flow. yea, sure, maybe. But has it actually been measured, like on a dyno, you know before and after coating on the same engine with no other modification?

Please link me to the dyno chart, I dont see it.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2008, 05:56 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
http://www.zircotec.org/page/benefits/6

sad thing is, these showed up in google search with keyword "benefits of ceramic coating" , how do you not find info on google?
Woh, these guys actually quoted numbers.
Quote:
Thermal barriers lower air intake temperatures which can lead to power improvements of up to 6%.
On what engine, do you guys have the dyno chart to prove this statement?

And once again its all about reducing under hood temperatures.

You know where I think the power benefits are coming from? Reduced intake temperatures.

In the infamous words of Carlos Mencia - "DEE DEE DEE".
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
NA Seat Sliders and Seat Belt Receivers skipstr Miata parts for sale/trade 2 09-28-2015 11:53 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:56 PM.