Chucks build thread
02-03-2009, 09:30 PM
#62
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For anyone wondering, I hate Chucky because I hate everyone I've ever met who acts like him. The worst kind of human is the one who thinks they know what they are talking about when in reality they haven't the foggiest clue.
If you had been willing to listen to reason in your last thread, where we tried for 5 or 6 pages to tell you that motors aren't boost limited, I might have a different opinion of you. This thread just solidifies what I already knew: You think you know everything, and you're unwilling to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with you. That's fine on Miata.net, but it will get you endlessly ridiculed here.
I've done more track days in the last 30 days than you've done in your life, BTW.
If you had been willing to listen to reason in your last thread, where we tried for 5 or 6 pages to tell you that motors aren't boost limited, I might have a different opinion of you. This thread just solidifies what I already knew: You think you know everything, and you're unwilling to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with you. That's fine on Miata.net, but it will get you endlessly ridiculed here.
I've done more track days in the last 30 days than you've done in your life, BTW.
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02-03-2009, 09:43 PM
#64
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At least do yourself a favor and don't waste the money on springs. Get a set of Koni Sports instead, and when you get more money upgrade to Ground Controls, and then revalve the Konis. You'll end up with my setup at the end of the day, which is probably one of the best sub-$2k setups out there.
Slotted rotors are ****, don't tell anyone here they are anything other than **** if you expect to maintain a modicum of respect. Solid rotors from NAPA are cheap and good.
Spend the money in pads. HPS pads are a joke, and anyone with track experience knows it. HP+ pads are only slightly better. Get a set of Carbotechs, XP10s front and XP8s rear. They are street driveable (you cut your dashboard in half, don't give me a single word about pad noise), cold bite is fine, and you will never fade them. Ever.
Slotted rotors are ****, don't tell anyone here they are anything other than **** if you expect to maintain a modicum of respect. Solid rotors from NAPA are cheap and good.
Spend the money in pads. HPS pads are a joke, and anyone with track experience knows it. HP+ pads are only slightly better. Get a set of Carbotechs, XP10s front and XP8s rear. They are street driveable (you cut your dashboard in half, don't give me a single word about pad noise), cold bite is fine, and you will never fade them. Ever.
When I get the funds I will be going with a coilover setup. I've been looking at a few setups and so far I like the Tein Mono Flex system. So untill then I will keep the setup I have.
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02-03-2009, 10:18 PM
#66
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BBK is a great way to blow through a lot of money very quickly. Initial cost is high and rotor costs are absolutely insane. If my stock, unducted 1.8 brakes with XP12/10s stopped me lap after lap from 135mph to 50mph at CalSpeed, nothing else is required. High-temp pads, ducting if you want a warm fuzzy feel, but BBKs just aren't necessary.
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02-03-2009, 11:41 PM
#67
i weighed my Wilwood BBK before installing it, and it was 30% lighter than stock
i agree, most Miatas are fine with just a good pad/maybe a stainless brake hose upgrade.
230whp@15psi, 13.75@100mph
if this up here is true, i wouldn't be bragging about knowing how to drive.
either you're sleeping between shifts or your 60 foots need more work, but 230whp should give you much better ET's and trap speeds than what you're getting.
i agree, most Miatas are fine with just a good pad/maybe a stainless brake hose upgrade.
230whp@15psi, 13.75@100mph
if this up here is true, i wouldn't be bragging about knowing how to drive.
either you're sleeping between shifts or your 60 foots need more work, but 230whp should give you much better ET's and trap speeds than what you're getting.
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02-03-2009, 11:50 PM
#68
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i weighed my Wilwood BBK before installing it, and it was 30% lighter than stock
i agree, most Miatas are fine with just a good pad/maybe a stainless brake hose upgrade.
230whp@15psi, 13.75@100mph
if this up here is true, i wouldn't be bragging about knowing how to drive.
either you're sleeping between shifts or your 60 foots need more work, but 230whp should give you much better ET's and trap speeds than what you're getting.
i agree, most Miatas are fine with just a good pad/maybe a stainless brake hose upgrade.
230whp@15psi, 13.75@100mph
if this up here is true, i wouldn't be bragging about knowing how to drive.
either you're sleeping between shifts or your 60 foots need more work, but 230whp should give you much better ET's and trap speeds than what you're getting.
Maybe he didn't want to grenade his diff.. a second time?
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02-04-2009, 01:17 AM
#70
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Why go all hardcore with the interior and then put some m.net autox junk for suspension on there? If this is a track car on a budget then you need some
Tokico Illumina's/Silver MSM shocks off a junk yard
ebay collars/QA1 springs from Summit
xp12/10 or xp10/8 combo
6ul's in 9" with a sticky tire
etc...did you read anything or just go out and buy?
Tokico Illumina's/Silver MSM shocks off a junk yard
ebay collars/QA1 springs from Summit
xp12/10 or xp10/8 combo
6ul's in 9" with a sticky tire
etc...did you read anything or just go out and buy?
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02-04-2009, 01:30 AM
#71
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Why go all hardcore with the interior and then put some m.net autox junk for suspension on there? If this is a track car on a budget then you need some
Tokico Illumina's/Silver MSM shocks off a junk yard
ebay collars/QA1 springs from Summit
xp12/10 or xp10/8 combo
6ul's in 9" with a sticky tire
etc...did you read anything or just go out and buy?
Tokico Illumina's/Silver MSM shocks off a junk yard
ebay collars/QA1 springs from Summit
xp12/10 or xp10/8 combo
6ul's in 9" with a sticky tire
etc...did you read anything or just go out and buy?
Also I only have one track event and 2 dozen or so solo II's under my bealt. Its better to improve yourself with a car on street tires, and not rock hard suspension. That way you can learn to feel the car better. Once I improve to the point i'm using all my tire and suspension then i'll worry about dialing it in.
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02-04-2009, 02:43 AM
#73
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Chuck, the money spent on stage 1 stuff is still money you're just throwing away. I said Koni Yellows because there's a clear upgrade path to a very good end setup (Koni Race valving with GCs and 700/450 rates) with two or three $500 steps along the way to help you fit it into your budget. If you buy KYBs and RB springs, you may as well light $600 on fire.
1. Koni Sports, FCM bumpstops, stock tophats, stock springs. Fine for track use for a beginner like yourself. $600-700 depending on tax and shipping.
2. GC sleeves, 450/300 spring rates, RB tubular front sway. $650ish. Still fine for a street car, much better track car.
3. Revalve front Konis to RACE spec ($250), swap 450lb springs to rear and buy new 700lb springs for the front ($80). One of the best track setups available for under $2k.
The only money you lose is the $80 for the pair of 300lb springs.
1. Koni Sports, FCM bumpstops, stock tophats, stock springs. Fine for track use for a beginner like yourself. $600-700 depending on tax and shipping.
2. GC sleeves, 450/300 spring rates, RB tubular front sway. $650ish. Still fine for a street car, much better track car.
3. Revalve front Konis to RACE spec ($250), swap 450lb springs to rear and buy new 700lb springs for the front ($80). One of the best track setups available for under $2k.
The only money you lose is the $80 for the pair of 300lb springs.
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02-04-2009, 03:10 AM
#74
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My god look Sav actually resisted the urge to tell you "your planned setup sucks" quite simply and then go on with his life, he actually just typed a whole post with VERY helpful info for you. HEED IT.
I don't want to be an echo here, but really there is a good reason so many people are on you so hard about your choices here - it's because many here have a lot of invaluable experience doing exactly what you wan to do with your car and are trying to save you a lot of money, regret and headache in the long run. If you don't want to take the advice, go track your AGX's and street pads, but there will be no pity for you later as there wasn't now when you come back saying all your **** broke/melted/epically failed at your first track day.
I've blown 2 of my 4 AGX's from using them aggressively and have faded Hawk HPS pads in an autocross - that's a sub one minute race. Oh, and slotted rotors are not for cars that actually go fast.
-Ryan
I don't want to be an echo here, but really there is a good reason so many people are on you so hard about your choices here - it's because many here have a lot of invaluable experience doing exactly what you wan to do with your car and are trying to save you a lot of money, regret and headache in the long run. If you don't want to take the advice, go track your AGX's and street pads, but there will be no pity for you later as there wasn't now when you come back saying all your **** broke/melted/epically failed at your first track day.
I've blown 2 of my 4 AGX's from using them aggressively and have faded Hawk HPS pads in an autocross - that's a sub one minute race. Oh, and slotted rotors are not for cars that actually go fast.
-Ryan
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02-04-2009, 12:36 PM
#75
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Chuck, the money spent on stage 1 stuff is still money you're just throwing away. I said Koni Yellows because there's a clear upgrade path to a very good end setup (Koni Race valving with GCs and 700/450 rates) with two or three $500 steps along the way to help you fit it into your budget. If you buy KYBs and RB springs, you may as well light $600 on fire.
1. Koni Sports, FCM bumpstops, stock tophats, stock springs. Fine for track use for a beginner like yourself. $600-700 depending on tax and shipping.
2. GC sleeves, 450/300 spring rates, RB tubular front sway. $650ish. Still fine for a street car, much better track car.
3. Revalve front Konis to RACE spec ($250), swap 450lb springs to rear and buy new 700lb springs for the front ($80). One of the best track setups available for under $2k.
The only money you lose is the $80 for the pair of 300lb springs.
1. Koni Sports, FCM bumpstops, stock tophats, stock springs. Fine for track use for a beginner like yourself. $600-700 depending on tax and shipping.
2. GC sleeves, 450/300 spring rates, RB tubular front sway. $650ish. Still fine for a street car, much better track car.
3. Revalve front Konis to RACE spec ($250), swap 450lb springs to rear and buy new 700lb springs for the front ($80). One of the best track setups available for under $2k.
The only money you lose is the $80 for the pair of 300lb springs.
So it looks like in a few months I will have some kyb's and racing beat springs for sale. I still don't view it as a complete waste of money since I think for the next few months that springs and agx are superior on the track then just koni yellow's.
Looks like your kit cost roughly $1500. If you did it over and had the money all at once would you buy a complete coilover kit like the tein mono-flex or do it the same way again?
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02-04-2009, 09:55 PM
#76
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You talk about 1st gear with a 6s/4.10 combo like 1st with a 5-speed or 1st with the 3.636s would be even SLIGHTLY more useable. Once you're past 250whp, 1st gear is a writeoff regardless of what your gear ratio is. It's a stupid argument.
The 6-speed and 4.10s is the best track box because of the 3-4-5-6 combo, which is what you actually USE. I have never used 2nd gear on any track. 3rd becomes the new 2nd, and you get a 70mph 2nd gear which makes it EXTREMELY useable, ESPECIALLY for a high horsepower car. 4th is the new 3rd, which runs you past 80mph, and 5th and 4th are the exact same and 6th/5th are close enough to consider them equal as well.
The 3.636 ratio nullifies all of those advantages. Your 2nd gear is still totally useless, but now you have a tall 3rd which means you're lugging the car out of tight corners, and you spend more time in every gear which means slower acceleration.
Put two equal cars on a road course, one with 3.636s and one with 4.10s, and regardless of the horsepower level, the 4.10 car will go faster. Period.
Chucky, you're doing a BEGi-SSM with a GT2871R, a stripped interior... and KYBs? Fail.
The 6-speed and 4.10s is the best track box because of the 3-4-5-6 combo, which is what you actually USE. I have never used 2nd gear on any track. 3rd becomes the new 2nd, and you get a 70mph 2nd gear which makes it EXTREMELY useable, ESPECIALLY for a high horsepower car. 4th is the new 3rd, which runs you past 80mph, and 5th and 4th are the exact same and 6th/5th are close enough to consider them equal as well.
The 3.636 ratio nullifies all of those advantages. Your 2nd gear is still totally useless, but now you have a tall 3rd which means you're lugging the car out of tight corners, and you spend more time in every gear which means slower acceleration.
Put two equal cars on a road course, one with 3.636s and one with 4.10s, and regardless of the horsepower level, the 4.10 car will go faster. Period.
Chucky, you're doing a BEGi-SSM with a GT2871R, a stripped interior... and KYBs? Fail.
I agree on the suspension...you're going to be really pissed when you see what you're missing, and please hold your line when the green car is coming around you.
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02-04-2009, 09:58 PM
#77
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Actually if you match racing beat springs with the kyb's they are perfect match. I had them on my previous miata and ran them for 2yrs at many solo II events and was quite happy with it. Plus its a good price. FM Springs and illuminas would have been extra $250 and when I decide to get coilovers it will be wasted money.
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02-04-2009, 10:30 PM
#78
Lol, everyone is talkin **** on my setup!
KYB shocks are bullshit even with stock spring rates, with my FM springs (not much more than stock SR) they are far beyond bullshit. This doesn't just mean they'd suck on a track, they suck period even for daily driving. The only reason they are on my car is that Urbansoot sold them to me a couple years back for pretty damn cheap.
My HPS pads are great street pads but i'd never take them on the track. They produce little to no dust, are dead quiet and were a good deal on egay
With track time not in my foreseeable future, I dont give that much of a ****.
KYB shocks are bullshit even with stock spring rates, with my FM springs (not much more than stock SR) they are far beyond bullshit. This doesn't just mean they'd suck on a track, they suck period even for daily driving. The only reason they are on my car is that Urbansoot sold them to me a couple years back for pretty damn cheap.
My HPS pads are great street pads but i'd never take them on the track. They produce little to no dust, are dead quiet and were a good deal on egay
With track time not in my foreseeable future, I dont give that much of a ****.
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02-05-2009, 05:06 PM
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Looks like that would have been a more efficient way to go. Three questions though. Are you still running stock tophats, are you running an aftermarket rear-sway bar, and koni yellow say around 450 you need to revalve have you had any problems with your rears not being revalved.
The SM setup is crap.
Last edited by Savington; 02-06-2009 at 04:22 AM.
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