Cracked 'vintage' 1.8 T3 EWG cast mani - replacement options?
 

Hey all, looking for some advice (and abuse no doubt). Car is the old "ADFX" 94 Black and Tan that was rumored to be one of the first 400hp cars a hell of a long time ago (around 2000 IIRC), I forget all the details now (which i probably best) but the jist is it is sporting a cast 1.8 T3 EWG manifold that has the WG hole repaired before and is now cracking further. I don't want to go all apeshit and replace everything with a new mani/turbo/DP/WG, I am quite happy with the performance of the cast log and even it's frame rail interference.. I just need to replace the mani with a solid unit. BEGi no longer makes it (and judging by everything I read here I'd be waiting a lifetime for one if they did), and while HellaFab makes pure art I'm not sure I can wait the 6 months it'll take to get a tubular masterpiece, I'd like the car running by end of Feb. Trying to weigh my options due to the various downsides of the Hella fab for my particular situation and desires, I'd love to go that route but I don't know that I can wait it out. So, the question is what other options do I have for a 1.8 T3 flanged EWG manifold?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-2005-M...VaDd0C&vxp=mtr

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Y4UAA...0C/s-l1600.png

Is that pretty much it aside from custom fabbed? I've read up a fair bit on the tacotaco stuff and assume this is the same offshore supplier, and this reeks of a ripoff of the existing mani I have (see below). Car should be in the 250+hp range and will be daily driven foolishly on street and maybe a few HPDE's a year. What's the consensus of durability on these cheap manifolds? I don't want to do this same exercise in June because it all cracked to shit (same reason I am not having the existing unit fixed), and this route let's me avoid reworking all manner of shit like the DP, WG, IC piping, etc. since it looks to be a near match drop in piece. But the $120 question is is this a priced solution or is it just delayed misery...?

Thoughts?

Wallyman

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0M...=w1279-h959-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cn...=w1279-h959-no

You must have missed the part where the OP stated:
"...and this route let's me avoid reworking all manner of shit like the DP, WG, IC piping, etc"
- not to mention thte fact that he'd need a new turbo.

Yep missed that part. I made a dumb next time I'll read the whole thing. Ignore what used to be in the place of this text

facepalm

But beside those.. that would work. :D Yeah, I want to keep rework to a minimum so that one is out. :td:

As much as I hate the idea, I suppose I could go cheapo for this coming season and have the HellaFab one made for next winter swap.. but I am trying to avoid redoing it after this winter. The turbo car isn't where I need to be spending my time (or money), fixing it was so I had something to enjoy driving while the LS2 car is finished (hopefully).

Is Abe (ARTech, right?) still around? I've seen references to his work and some photos of pieces that imply he can solve my problems (or at least this specific problem!)

that china manifold is your easiest route. looks like it will fit the same as your existing manifold, and hopefully should last a good white being a heavy cast unit.

Pat is running one on his compound boosted 400+hp setup and it hasnt cracked yet.

That's sort of my thoughts but given you guys run all manner of stuff, the real world of Pat using it helps. Managed to dig up an email for Abe and sent him a note too, but no reply yet if he is building anything. His website shows a BEGi/FM replacement option which is what exactly I need, just not sure he is making anything anymore..?

Abe is still slowly making stuff. He does it on the side of a real job, and its the holidays. Not getting a quick response should be expected.

Cool. From the website I found it sort of looked like a full time gig (company name, address, all that), but waiting it shall be I guess.

So far it's HellaFab, Abe or ebay china knockoff.. any other options? FM is out, BEGi is out.. oh, and I sent that guy over at MKTurbos an email a couple days ago to see if he had a manifold that might work but still waiting on his reply.... :) Do you make your mani or is it a prefab you buy?

I'd just buy that China copy. Otherwise, you'd need to buy a FM or BEGi manifold and then machine the EWG outlet.

fm is t25. He has the t3 version.
Only easy option is the china manifold.

Neither FM nor BEGi make a Mani with the T3 flange any more. The ebay feels like a bandaid at $110... maybe I'm wrong but my problems rarely are solved that easily or cheaply. Usually it's just the can of worms being opened because I didn't spend good money for good product. I want to make sure I at least understand the options available before I pick my poison, especially since it looks like there are 2 or 3 good fabricators that might be able to produce something far superior to that hunk of cast.

Bell tuning or MaxG or what-have-you, don't drill the flanges until after the fact. They can drill it for a T3 -- there was no actually difference in the manifolds. BUT I'm not sure they still have an EWG cast -- very doubtful on that.

I spoke with BEGi (Joey @ MaxG), apparently Corky changed the flange design a while back and it's not big enough to allow for a T3 setup. And yeah, the EWG issue....

I bet the china knockoff is probably the same exact quality and would work fine for you

If it is, it could possibly outlive the car.. that manifold has been on there at least 12 years (and I suspect probably closer to 20 from the history that I know) and saw a metric crap ton of roadcourse track time prior to my ownership..

shuiend, you never answered.. do you make your manifolds?

he makes his own. they won't fit your setup at all though

....no...but maybe he could make one that would. :) Log Mani already has the T3 flange, just needs the EWG port. His DP would be a good start, get it without the v-band flange and put a 4 bolt on it and add the EWG pipe.... possible option if he was interested in making it. Would cover about half of the work or more.

Just collecting info on options.....

I saw your email the other day, and i will get back once I have some real free time.. I have been busy working to get other customers products out the door before the holidays. I don't generally do custom work.

I was going to mention that he is capable of making you one, but might not have a good jig set-up, as Lars puts the turbo outlet near cylinder 2, rather than at the middle.

Manifolds built without proper jigs is what BEGI was famous for, as I understand it.

So summary of findings to date for the next guy searching:

eBay china-mani is a T3 EWG cast mani for $110 that looks to be a dead ripoff of the original FM/BEGi that I have.
Fab9Tuning is v-band based, won't work for an old stud-based T3.
FM no T3 based anything and no custom work.
Abe (ARTech) no longer makes manifolds, but does do DP's and exhausts.
MKTurbo doesn't do custom work and doesn't have a T3 EWG option.
BEGi got back to me and offered to do a custom job - weld a T3 flange onto the cast manifold they offer (unknown cost and lead time).
HellaFab can do anything basically but long lead (5-6 months).

'Band-aid" ebay version on order while I contemplate the HellaFab (essentially the only upgrade path for me if I keep the turbo and WG I have). Thanks all!
Wallyman

Don't BEGi. Please. It won't be right. See also: Their custom built anything ever.

I'd try the eBay because it looks like a perfect knockoff for fitment and it costs nearly nothing.

No shot on a second round weld repair?
what was the cleaning / preheat / filler metal used on the previous repair?

I'm not and I am. :)

For the record, I did at one point have a very good experience with Corky personally, but that was 10+ years ago when I needed some misc. crap to fix a damaged intercooler...

The blacksmith said they could try, but the issue isn't just the failed repair, there are other cracks radiating out from the WG port hole that you can't see real well. I mentioned that I could get (at the time I thought) a replacement for $400-450, and they said it's the better options because I would have all of that and perhaps more in the repair and the machining of the faces and not have any certainty of longevity.

Completely unknown, that repair is a minimum of 3 owners and 7 years ago.

Not replying, so probably sold...? Eitherway I'm going to try the $120 ebay special while I let the Hellfab beauty gnaw at my subconscious.

I though more people would realize this. That car was built when? Around 15 years ago?
Me thinks China realized FM lost the patent on their original manifold so it’s free to copy. Now to just wait another 15 and hope they make a trackspeed rip-off

Something I often wonder when faced with cheap ripoffs is how much effort it took to do it.. do they just get their hands on the old molds, or do they actually reverse engineer it? Because I wish they would ripoff enhanced/improved stuff instead of the antiquated 20 year old designs. :)

Seriously though, I am very curious how well the $110 unit looks and holds up.

I can say the eBay t2 cast holds up pretty well as a door stop for 3 years. My eBay t3 ended up on patsmx5 car.

I can tell you a couple things from the t3 cast, I've been using it for 2 years and 15k miles now.
The t3 model comes with an external gate block off plate (if your lucky, I didn't get one)
The t2 comes with a heat shield but not a waste gate port block off plate
You'll either need longer bolts or studs for the 4 outer-most holes, casting is thicker here
The turbo to manifold studs provided are far too short, you can use bolts, the begi ones, or the track speed Inconel kit
It flows OK, I was still able to hit 10 psi at 3k with the braineack t3, pat has had it up to, if not over 300 whp
I've also never seen one crack, it seem like a good fit for the OP

So, it arrived today... drilled for a GT2x turbo. WTF. Sent seller a note, we shall see how this goes.

did you buy the T3 auction or t25 auction? There are two types of this same manifold.

it's pointless asking Chinese sellers anything, you gotta know what you are buying.

I may not be the sharpest sandwich in the picnic basket, but I *can* read. :) I made sure to order the T3 flavor (or so it said):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-2005-M...72.m2749.l2649

The trouble is you can't know what you are buying if you can't trust those idiots listing it. So as a replacement I am looking at this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272948847411

Which reads in part:

Includes 1 T3/T4 Turbo Manifold
Features:
3. Standard T3 (t3/t4, T04e) Turbo Flange Configuration Outlet (M10 studs).
4. Come with pre-weld 35 / 38 (mm) wastegate flange.

Seems pretty clear, but is it actually right? The last ad clearly said T3 too just like this one.... How does that saying go? Cheap, Fast, Good: pick two.... guess 'good' wasn't it last time. will my luck be any better on the second try? I initiated a return on the first mani, so that should go back easy enough having dealt with "not as listed" problems before. I just want to avoid buying and returning hunks of iron until I find an actual T3 setup.

So, I asked TacoTaco to confirm the dimensions on the flange to avoid having a second manifold I can't use... here's what I got back:

"The bolt pattern is 2 " x 2 1/8 , those are the measurements we got from the turbo."

That doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me, I can't for the life of me figure out what turbo could possibly bolt up to that. Even the photos of the manifold show a very distinctly NOT square pattern so I asked him to clarify (and provided the dimesnions of a T28 and a T3 for reference) which he ignored. I asked a third time and got the same 2x2.125 dimensions in response. Asked for a phone number to discuss it, got nothing. So pretty fuggin useless there. Assuming he is a moron who doesn't care about customer service or communicating, I sent the same exact question to 4 other sellers today, waiting to see if anyone replies with anything remotely resembling a useful reply.

Side note - when I picked up my DP from the blacksmith, the owner was there and asked me about the manifold.. I think if these for 4 ebay dudes are useless I am going to have him take a shot at repair. I spoke to one of the other guys there originally who didn't seem to convinced it was long term fixable, but the head honcho (whom I've dealt with directly before) thought it was doable.

I'm more amused that you actually tried, and expected to get something non-retarded, than his response.

the T3 verison and T25 verisons are obvious:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1453427783



both pictures from the ebay auctions are t25:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lKwAA...ab/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MLAAA...8x/s-l1600.jpg

doesnt mean that's what they actually are.


gotta find the thread where someone drilled a t25 one of these out for t3.


ah here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...estions-27799/

btw that first image is Shuiend's -- he may still have that manifold to sell you.

This guys looks awfully similar, let me know if I could assist further.

that actually looks correct.

Those your or someone local to you? I'm interested if it is a T3 mani, for sure!

Call me a dreamer.. the upside is his response helps me feel a rung or two higher on the evolutionary ladder at least.

this is how i go though life!

Its listed as a T3, this guys not local to me I just saw the listing and remembered this thread so shared the wealth.

Ive asked for his contact info or to post in this thread.

Thanks, man! I appreciate it.. running short on drop in solutions at this point, and got completely screwed on the "fix it over the holidays" plan.

totally looks like T3 . GET IT.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GS...=w1680-h822-no

I'm on it like white on rice, just need the contact info that Zsanz is chasing!

Everyone needs a reference point to help them feel better about themselves. :) Side note, I appreciate you guys helping me out.

really hope this was to you else somebody else lurking picked this up between 10:10AM and 2:35PM 1/6 .


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cc518665c6.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...84202b10d9.png

Nope, not me....back to the drawing board.

Trying to decide what's less-foolish.. taking my existing "quality" (assuming something pre-china ripoff is better quality) manifold and having it professionally repaired or take the cheapo china-bay knockoff and fill-n-drill-n-tap like Patsmx5 did.... I haven't sent the ebay manifold back yet.

What say you guys?

do you wanna get running again? :P

Nothing wrong with plugging the T2 holes, milling it flat, and re drilling/tapping for T3 pattern.

Uhhh.. kinda. :)

So I decided to do both. Having the original repaired and having the new one filled and will tap it myself. One on the car (the original) and a spare on the shelf just in case. Hope to have it back in two weeks give or take and then I can reassemble and finish all the other mods that require the engine in the bay.