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Crappy spool with sr20 t25?
Whats goin on guys, i recently switched from my ebay t3 manifold with the braineack 50 trim, to a custom log mani with an sr20 t25. Just got the setup finished and my spool is garbage. 5 psi by 3200 in 5th, worse in 4th. The whole reason i changed my setup around was for better spool, but my spool is horrendous. I’ve checked for boost leaks, tightened the wastegate arm(wg moves back and forth freely and doesn’t open until 10psi of compressed shop-air), and for pre turbo leaks. Everything seems fine, what gives? I also have a tial bov that after the turbo install, sounds a little different and quieter. It’s open at idle because the spring is too light, but it shouldn’t be leaking under boost, and it didn’t in the boost leak test. What the hells goin on here? |
Vac/ boost source line? |
Originally Posted by thirdgen
(Post 1504519)
Vac/ boost source line? |
1.6L?
And welded el logs dont spool all that good |
Yeah 1.6, i know they don’t spool too good. But this bad? I was running a t3 before with the ebay log and it spooled better.. |
Bump? |
What's the turbine housing a/r on the t25 and the old t3?
Some t3's spool earlier than some t25's for various reasons. Not all t3's are the same. There's a huge variation in the series. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by spencerh22
(Post 1504529)
Yeah 1.6, i know they don’t spool too good. But this bad? I was running a t3 before with the ebay log and it spooled better.. Attachment 228433 |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1504563)
What's the turbine housing a/r on the t25 and the old t3?
Some t3's spool earlier than some t25's for various reasons. Not all t3's are the same. There's a huge variation in the series. |
The only thing i can think of that might be causing it, is that i had to clearance my downpipe quite a bit in order to clear the shelf with my vband adapter. I had to hammer it at the elbow, could this really be a bottle neck? I ordered a slimmer adapter and am going to try and see if a pie cut downpipe gives me a little better spool. |
A .48 will make a small t3 spool pretty damn quick. Exhaust wheel and compressor wheel size and trim can make a difference in spool also but I bet most of it in this case is in the turbine housing a/r. You can look for a smaller one for the t25 if matters that much.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1504589)
A .48 will make a small t3 spool pretty damn quick. Exhaust wheel and compressor wheel size and trim can make a difference in spool also but I bet most of it in this case is in the turbine housing a/r. You can look for a smaller one for the t25 if matters that much.
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I have a T25 on my 1.6 and it hits my target boost around 3500
what's your exhaust setup? |
Originally Posted by WigglingWaffles
(Post 1504592)
I have a T25 on my 1.6 and it hits my target boost around 3500
what's your exhaust setup? |
11psi, but I have 3" exhaust.
is your idle valve plumbed into the intake tract? I've heard of those bypassing boost without a check valve |
I didn't see it mentioned, but could something perhaps be wrong with the turbo itself? Was the "new" turbo used?
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I should have a T25g turbo for sale here shortly, Includes an unused 360 degree dynamic seal kit.
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Originally Posted by HmoobDude
(Post 1504598)
I didn't see it mentioned, but could something perhaps be wrong with the turbo itself? Was the "new" turbo used?
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Journal bearing sr20 t25 turbos are not really spool monsters. I've had one on my 1.8L nb2 miata and was not impressed with the spool, the gt2560r I later installed spooled better. The t25 was not horrible, but not great, considering the small size. This was on a begi cast manifold and 2.5" dp to 3" exhaust.
a 1.6l with weld els log and smashed Downpipe is not helping it spool all that great... Still it should come alive around 3500rpm or so |
Originally Posted by spencerh22
(Post 1504601)
Yeah, it was, but i rebuilt it. Everything seems fine with the turbo. |
Originally Posted by muthagoose
(Post 1504605)
Long shot, but did you plug the stock wastegate mount holes? They pass fully though to the compressor.
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Originally Posted by WigglingWaffles
(Post 1504597)
11psi, but I have 3" exhaust.
is your idle valve plumbed into the intake tract? I've heard of those bypassing boost without a check valve |
Block off BOV opening completely and see if it makes a difference. You said BOV was soft.
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I can attest to a T3 outspooling a T25. I had a .48/T3 60 trim on my 1.6L and it was an absolute spool monster and spooled faster than a GT2560R which is going to spool about the same as a journal T25 since they have the same hotside parts.
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Well, fixed my blow off valve that was open at idle, nothing changed. Tomorrow i will try fabbing a new downpipe and check out the wastegate and see what’s goin on in there. Really disappointed with this turbo, anyone else have an sr t25 and have spool data? |
At what rpm are you hitting 10psi in 4th gear?
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Originally Posted by spencerh22
(Post 1504749)
Well, fixed my blow off valve that was open at idle, nothing changed. Tomorrow i will try fabbing a new downpipe and check out the wastegate and see what’s goin on in there. Really disappointed with this turbo, anyone else have an sr t25 and have spool data? |
I have a .86 hotside t25 on my stock 1.6 and in 4th i hit 10PSI at around 4300rpm. My SR t25 that i ran previously was equally laggy feeling for some reason with a lot less punch this .86 housing hits hard in comparison to the sr t25 but still spools around the same RPM. Doesn't make any sense to me but i like it. Though the turbo i'm running is made by a company out in vegas and is available on the classic fleabay. It is aimed at SR's and can make way more than what my 1.6 can handle so i figured it would be pretty laggy.
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My sr20 t25 spools to 13 psi @ 2900 rpm.
Spool is instant and there's no lag. It lacks in punch though. I can only compare by feel to a friend's gt2560r that it takes half a second to feel it spin but then it takes off like a rocket ship. |
Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1504820)
My sr20 t25 spools to 13 psi @ 2900 rpm.
Spool is instant and there's no lag. It lacks in punch though. I can only compare by feel to a friend's gt2560r that it takes half a second to feel it spin but then it takes off like a rocket ship. |
let's see some pics of your bay and this custom log mani you mentioned
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Are you using an EBC? Do you have any logs? I have a 1.6 with a t25 on 14ish lbs and see that target before 3500rpm with proper EBC settings. Kraken manifold and 2.5” exhaust. |
No ebc yet, going to order one soon. Here are requested pics https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4deb8cee8.jpeg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...791d993a0.jpegCustom mani |
is your valve cover PCV port just open to atmosphere on both side? That seems like a fire just waiting to happen to me. You’re probably getting some wastegate flex with that mounting solution. My car feels very lazy on just wastegate spring. It’s only like 6psi and I don’t see that until 4K rpm or so. Get some sort of WG control on the car. Also that crunched downpipe isn’t doing you any favors. The 1.6 has a great oil feed on the block you can use and right next to it is a water feed, which looks like you choose not to even water cool the turbo. Kinda questionable but I’ve seen people do that after cracking a feed line on track. |
Originally Posted by 90civichhb
(Post 1504935)
is your valve cover PCV port just open to atmosphere on both side? |
Sorry, on mobile. I edited my original post with more input. |
I see what's going on. Turbo is actually in self-preservation mode. It is staying out of boost to prevent you from dying from brake reservoir failure.
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you're not using boost control of any sort and tee-ing off the compressor outlet.........
.,.............and wondering why your spool sucks? lol |
You probably need to read some more build threads on here. You’ve got the parts but you’re doing some strange things that look kinda like willful ignorance. |
Originally Posted by spencerh22
(Post 1504827)
What’s your setup? That’s the spool i’m after.. Looks to me that your wastegate rod is too long. That can hurt spool. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1504943)
you're not using boost control of any sort and tee-ing off the compressor outlet.........
.,.............and wondering why your spool sucks? lol |
Originally Posted by 90civichhb
(Post 1504935)
is your valve cover PCV port just open to atmosphere on both side? That seems like a fire just waiting to happen to me. You’re probably getting some wastegate flex with that mounting solution. My car feels very lazy on just wastegate spring. It’s only like 6psi and I don’t see that until 4K rpm or so. Get some sort of WG control on the car. Also that crunched downpipe isn’t doing you any favors. The 1.6 has a great oil feed on the block you can use and right next to it is a water feed, which looks like you choose not to even water cool the turbo. Kinda questionable but I’ve seen people do that after cracking a feed line on track. |
both should be off the IM. that's for starters.
it seems to me like you made some incorrect assumptions and now puzzled over a problem that you created |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1504961)
both should be off the IM. that's for starters.
it seems to me like you made some incorrect assumptions and now puzzled over a problem that you created |
:likecat:
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Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1504955)
Basically an fm kit.
Looks to me that your wastegate rod is too long. That can hurt spool. And/or some sort of boost control as others have mentioned. |
Originally Posted by muthagoose
(Post 1504971)
Thats what i would be thinking, wastegate isnt holding shut as tight as it needs to be. Looks to be some slip in that rod. Try tightening, or spacing wastegate bracket with washers.
And/or some sort of boost control as others have mentioned. |
Do a test, unhook the WG signal line and see if spool improves. Be careful as there will be no boost control but this will tell you if your losing spool through the wg cracking open early.
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That's a good test, but set your overboost to 5psi
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Already did that, spool is slightly faster. Boost controller is ordered as well so maybe i can use the bottom port on my wastegate to keep it shut. |
Anybody have any logs to post up with their respective setup? have always been curious about 1.6 spool with different manifolds and exhausts despite everybody sh!tting on it for being inferior to the 1.8.
I'd really like to see a journal bearing 2560 vs a BB 2560 as well. next time i have my car out i'll try to grab a 4th gear log. i've always kept my eye on the spool data thread but it's obviously very 1.8 dominated. |
See the "I want your spool data" thread already in existence.
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Originally Posted by irollgen4s
(Post 1505252)
Anybody have any logs to post up with their respective setup? have always been curious about 1.6 spool with different manifolds and exhausts despite everybody sh!tting on it for being inferior to the 1.8.
I'd really like to see a journal bearing 2560 vs a BB 2560 as well. next time i have my car out i'll try to grab a 4th gear log. i've always kept my eye on the spool data thread but it's obviously very 1.8 dominated. |
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