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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 02-05-2008, 11:09 PM   #1
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Default e-manage or not?

i bought a diy turbo kit off of my buddy but he didnt include the e-manage cable and software to tune it at the dyno. i have been reading a little on the ms and it sounds promising. the kit also came with some old school engine management like australian industries. it came with a fuel cut and a 5th injector. i dont plan on using any of the old electronics nor the 5th injector. does anyone have any ideas on where to find an e-manage cable and software other than ebay? and what do you think of the safc or the avcr?
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:02 AM   #2
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I'll bite cause I should be doing homework...

The SAFC and AVCR, if they had iPod inputs might be worth something...
>BTDT

for the EMB You can get the software for free from the yahoo groups. Back in the day you could get it free here too... Also you can use a Nokia cable to make your own cable, Steelrat posted a How-to awhile back...

I have both the EMB and MS, they are totally different, the EMB does much less, but is really easy to use. MS can be easy, or it can be a pita, and the troubleshooting is a little more time consuming.

I like them both, and have them both, for different reasons...

Braineack makes good a product for cheaper than I can build myself, so when I under took MS the second time I picked up one of his units.

If you looking for cheap 6-8psi then a simple EMB with O2 clamp might suffice, it's all about your budget and tolerance for learning...
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:26 PM   #3
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why is this posted under DIY?
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:56 PM   #4
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mostly because its a pieced together kit and i wasnt sure if anyone was using e-manage or not. why use an 02 clamp?
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by silver99 View Post
mostly because its a pieced together kit and i wasnt sure if anyone was using e-manage or not. why use an 02 clamp?
AN O2 clamp keeps your ECU thinking its runnig at Stoich, when its really running rich. If you don't trick the ECU, when it senses rich it will pull back fuel to run stoich

You want to run 12:1 for boost, stoich is 14.7:1, so run an O2 Clamp and you won't have any transition problems..
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:12 PM   #6
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IIRC Joe or someone has a schematic of what you need.. I put one up with an OP-amp but it scared everyone off so I keep to myself....

You don't need an O2 clamp with MS...
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:13 PM   #7
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just to get it up and running use an EMB, it will be a nice intro into electronic tuning, then you can later upgrade to a megasquirt

by the way, where in SC are you?
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:23 AM   #8
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in the northeast area of columbia, if you could help me out with some problems i would be more than happy to help you out in any way! i might have parts that you may need or something.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:01 AM   #9
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The schematic is in this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16124

It's intended to be used with the EMU, since that unit has a full 2d map for controlling the "Aux Out" which is the trigger into this clamp. I *think* that someone figured out a way to do it with EMB, but I cannot seem to recall where that post went.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:51 AM   #10
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if the greddy e-manage was tuned why would i need to use an 02 clamp? will it change the fuel map under wot? it shouldnt since its a narrow band 02 correct? basically just for idle right?
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:52 AM   #11
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ha ha ha, lots of ?'s
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:58 AM   #12
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even though it is tuned the car's ECU will still try to pull fuel, and the greddy unit is running from a map so it doesn't make real time adjustments so the clamp is needed. This is as much as i know though if it is correct, almost time for some Russel house TACO BELL!!!!
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver99 View Post
if the greddy e-manage was tuned why would i need to use an 02 clamp? will it change the fuel map under wot? it shouldnt since its a narrow band 02 correct? basically just for idle right?
First off, this has nothing to do with the EMB/EMU, it has to do with the stock ECU, which remember is still generating the base fuel map.

The stock ECU reads the narrowband O2 sensor and tries to keep the mixture right at stoichiometric whenever it is operating in closed-loop mode. This is not just idle, but is in fact most cruise conditions and even WOT at low RPMs. The ECU uses a load computation to do most of its fuel and timing work. Load is calculated based upon RPM and airflow. When it determines that load has exceeded a certain point, it goes open-loop and starts ignoring the O2 sensor. There is no way to force the ECU to go open-loop. It does it when it wants to.

Any time the ECU is in closed-loop mode, making changes to the fuel table with an EMB/EMU is hard. The reason is that if you try to add fuel, the ECU will detect that you've gone rich and it will pull fuel to compensate. The two computers wind up fighting each other.

Normally, we are only adding fuel when in boost. And typically, by the time you are in boost the ECU has decided to go open-loop. This is not always the case however, particularly at very low RPMs or at the transition point when you're crossing over into boost.

Enter the O2 clamp.

By switching on the O2 clamp, we prevent the stock ECU from seeing the true fuel mixture and feed it a bogus signal instead. This prevents it from trying to make corrections to remove all the extra fuel that you're adding with the EMB/EMU. Even if the ECU internally thinks it's still in closed-loop mode, we break the loop externally.


Would someone either sticky or FAQ this, please?
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:08 PM   #14
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wow, it makes more since now when broken down like that for me! i really appreciate it Joe, ur not making the 02 clamps anymore tho??
mazda/nissan do you go to USC?
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #15
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver99 View Post
if the greddy e-manage was tuned why would i need to use an 02 clamp? will it change the fuel map under wot? it shouldnt since its a narrow band 02 correct? basically just for idle right?
Nope, the stock ECU is in closed loop A LOT. Driving around for long without an o2 clamp is 1)dangerous 2)annoying as hell.

Inbetween the E-manage and MSPNP there's a product out by AEM called the F/IC which is what I'm running. With it you woundnt need a clamp because it handles o2 manipulation on-board. It also controls your injectors directly and retards timing. No need to modify your MAF signal, etc.

If you'd like to check it out, im probably just down the road from ya' (garners ferry/leesburg area)
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver99 View Post
wow, it makes more since now when broken down like that for me! i really appreciate it Joe, ur not making the 02 clamps anymore tho??
mazda/nissan do you go to USC?
yeah i'm going to usc, maybe i'll graduate from here as an engineer, maybe from tech, time will tell. but if your gonna go to slos13's, make sure to bring a TOMTOM, it can get confusing
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The schematic is in this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16124

It's intended to be used with the EMU, since that unit has a full 2d map for controlling the "Aux Out" which is the trigger into this clamp. I *think* that someone figured out a way to do it with EMB, but I cannot seem to recall where that post went.
Yes,
you can using the VTEC/NVCS output... The schematic was wiped out when the old owner decided to dump the emanage section/files....
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:56 PM   #19
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slos13, i used to live off of caughman rd., i was gonna start installing the kit and e-manage tomorrow at work. id be interested in talkin to you about a few things and i might hold off on installing for a bit. if you could help me in any way i would REALLY appreciate it! send me a pm with ur number or whatever, i cant pm you until 8 more posts and im tired as hell!
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:56 AM   #20
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Dang you're close. YGPM
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