Dawn

Hi! I have a '97 M-Edition that's being built for street / mountain road driving with 90k miles on it, and I'm from Richmond, VA so I don't think Hustler has gotten to my GF yet. I'm running AC and power steering, and I'd like to keep them. My goal initially is about 200-220WHP and TQ. Here are my performance mods that I have installed:
- DIY MS3X
- Flowforce 640cc Injectors
- DW200 Fuel Pump
- AEM Boost Gauge
- AEM AFR Gauge
- Polyurethane Exhaust Mounts
- Koyorad Radiator
- Supermiata / 949 Coolant Reroute
- Flyin Miata Happy Meal Stage 2 Clutch + Flywheel (Still have to install once COVID is over with friends)
- New Valve Cover Gasket
- New Water Tubing

So what I think I need to finish it at my power goal is:
- Borg Warner EFR 6258 (final horsepower goal will be 300WHP, so it'll allow for progression)
- Fab9 Top Mount V-Band Manifold + Downpipe (Because art)
- EFR B1 Turbo Blanket (Researched and I believe there are some major advantages)
- Fab9 350HP Max Intercooler
- Fab9 CoP Conversion Kit (No idea if this is going to be necessary initially)

And then the stuff I don't think I need at this HP but not sure is:
- ATI Damper (According to Flyin Miata, really helps over 280HP, or when engine is built internally)
- Turbo PCV Valve (Probably don't need this unless the one I have isn't functioning)
- Manley H Beam Rods (Probably relevant over 275HP)
- Oil Catch Can (Not a big deal if I do need it)

Stuff I'm not sure yet where I want to source:
- Intercooler piping
- Turbo oil feed and drain lines
- Turbo water feed and drain lines
- Custom 3" Exhaust (Buy pre-bent online / get from exhaust shop?)

I've researched a lot on the forums but I think these will be the main things that people have questions about. I've been looking into turboing for about a year now, so getting concrete answers on these factors will definitely help me and what I believe is a large part of the community. Even if you just have one aspect of it to comment on that you might have had success with in your build, it'll be appreciated Thanks in advance! Also I'll be starting a build thread very soon as I've been taking pictures. I've got some really interesting stuff in the works that I'd like to document to give back to the community.

JakZe

iTrader: (1)

Don't get the fab9 CoPs. Spend the extra $ and get yourself an LS coil kit from flowforce. Especially running with a mega squirt. Fab doesn't really support MS, so if you run into any issues with them like I did. They won't really be of any help. Where as the LS kit has way more support.

I'm not saying the fab9 CoPs are complete garbage. I've seen some Miata's use them with success. But for just $50~ more seems like you'll get more for your money.

Also if you live in a place like me, where there isn't any shops that do fab work, I'd go with the kraken manifold and exhaust system, pairs up well with 6258, FM intercooler piping, and FM/Fab9 intercooler.

user 8202

If your getting the supermiata reroute, why don't you go ahead and get their crossflow radiator. Ive heard it cools better and its not as thick so you don't run into issues with clearance for intercooler piping and stuff.

Dawn

I didn't know there was that small of a price difference. Fab9 has done well by me in the past, and I've got some good MS resources, but that's really valuable to know and a good consideration considering my future goals. However, I don't know how necessary an upgrade is for the power level I want.

I have a lot of stuff around me since I'm in a big city, so I think I'll be okay finding someone. That setup you mentioned is definitely a super solid fallback though. That was my original plan.

Dawn

I got the Koyo one for a steal as far as they go, and since I won't be doing any "track use" except for some pretty beginner autocross, I'm not completely worried yet about temps. Thus why I left out some "nice to haves" like an oil cooler, a crossflow radiator, and AC / power steering deletion. It'll be between that one and the Koyo crossflow that Flyin' Miata came out with literally right after the return period on my radiator was up.

technicalninja

Kraken on the manifold, lines, down pipe.
MKTurbo might have a good solution on the exhaust system for the Kraken stuff so maybe down pipe/exhaust from MKTurbo.
Check his for sale thread last couple of pages. I wish he'd get his cast manifold finished...

At 225 hp nothing inside the motor at all. Use the stock head and your original intake.
The damper is good insurance against oil pump failures, easy to install, will swap over to the hot motor later. Do this early.
Size the intercooler for the 300+ hp level, having too big an intercooler on a small system is never a problem. Only buy this once.
Confirm a working PCV and add a catch can early. Size the system for the 300+ level. Keeping trash out of the engine is always good.


Be smart, find another core to build while you enjoy the 225hp config.

For the 300hp build
The later heads (99 up) are worth it flow wise so try to find a 99-00 engine to build.
No HLAs, you can do an accurate valve adjustment with shims!
Mild port clean up, good valve job. Upgrade springs
Use the 99 intake manifold or a flat top.
Forged rods/forged pistons, ARP crap, improved oil pump.
The normal 20+ PSI turbo engine stuff,
The only reason to limit this engine to 300hp is the strength of the transmission (needs to be a six speed above 225-250hp).
With 8.6 pistons, stock cams it could easily make more. The 6258 can easily exceed your power goals.

I don't like turbo blankets, I'd rather have dedicated airflow around the turbo to keep engine bay temps down. This can mean vents in hood...
Seen too many COOKED turbine housing from putting anything close to it. Shielding to keep the turbo heat from other things is a requirement.

Your basic list looks good.
It looks like you are doing this in the proper sequence.
Do you have the car running NA on the Megasquirt and big injectors yet?
You should have...
A couple of months playing with the tune in NA form will help you dramatically when you add boost.
You're tuning YOU as much as the car when you're playing with it "pre-boost".

curly

iTrader: (25)

You're being lead well by everyone else that's posted, however I feel like I need to mention the poly exhaust hangers. They're not necessary, and I've seen more of them tear and fail than OEM rubber. If anything, buy the OEM ones for $4.38 each (according to my mazdaspeed account).

I would also heavily inspect your current engine. Boost won't make an engine leak less. I realize you've got a built motor in the horizon, but look at your crank pulley, is there a bunch of oil around it? What about the back of the metal timing cover? Top of the transmission bell housing? If yes to any of these, do a completely timing belt/water pump job, with cam seals, front main seal, CAS seal, your planned valve cover, water pump, timing pulleys, belt, and accessory belts. It's always a great feeling when all of these components have the same age anyways.

technicalninja

Once again Curly's right...
He has a shitload of experience and is always spot on.
Listen to Curly, it's good advice.

I'd also do a hot compression test and leak down as well as correct the PM (preventative maintenance) needs of the engine.
If I had generally OK numbers I would run it. Most old engines will show excessive leak down (usually valve seating is no longer perfect).
Tuning with an engine you are planning to replace anyways is a "safety valve". You screw up and pop it it just means you're doing the big engine sooner.
Big bad assed engine will NOT give you more leeway in tuning. Because you're tuning to a much higher level it actually makes the tune more critical.
Pop a $600 engine no big deal, pop a $5000 engine- big deal, hurt feelings and wallet. Takes the fun out of messing with stuff.
Does a number on your confidence in your own work...

Dawn

Epic idea, I wonder if he would sell the exhaust piecemeal...

I've heard the ATI damper is really, really hard to get on and off, so I was kind of worried about installing it before I do water and oil pump.

Fab9's intercooler comes with good bracketry and also is rated for 350HP. I don't think I'm worried about crossing that threshold too soon. In all honesty I might pull a VVT head and build this 1.8l that I have in the future, but I may also be happy at 225ish and never look back. That's why I previously cross-shopped eBay turbos, because they could probably meet my requirements at a fraction of the price, but I feel like a good turbo can be rebuilt for many years to come as long as it's taken care of.

I'll look around at catch cans. What's a nice one? I know Moss Miata sells a couple like the Moroso one I think.

I'll keep my eye out, but I'll definitely come back with a better idea of power goals once I feel 225 in the miata. I daily a tuned complete bolt on RSX Type S with about 210 to the wheels, but I have a feeling that there will be a big difference in power delivery, torque, and weight.

My research was that it basically holds the heat in the right places to optimize the turbocharger's efficiency. What do you mean by "cooked" turbine housing? Do they melt or something?

I got the car stock, ran it that way for a while, joined a Miata club, did an exhaust, built a DIY MS3X and tuned it, steering wheel, short shifter, BBS wheels from the 95 M-Edition, stereo system (I build and sell home theater / car audio speakers in my spare time), and a bunch of maintenance and replacing of old and broken things (not many, got it super mint). I got bigger injectors and fp and re-tuned it and played with it for a while. I also tuned my RSX S and it's running super strong now. Then somehow when I was doing the coolant reroute I ended up with the exhaust header off and most of the engine bay removed. Probably somewhere in the diagnosis of my AC system that stopped working and trying to remove rust from every bolt. So here I am.

Dawn

I got them to stop my ISR catback from rattling against the rear bumper, and they're pretty sturdy. They worked really well for it, but I've still got stock rubber ones also just in case.

Just a valve cover gasket leak, but I'm inspecting everything as I work on it. I'll do a water pump / timing belt / oil pump service in 20k miles since it was replaced at 60k-ish. I'm planning to replace the throwout bearing when I'm in the transmission, as well as check the rear main seal. I feel like my alternator accessory belt goes bad really fast, and I'm using Gates belts...

Thanks Curly!

- Additionally, I need turbo hardware so I was going to get the Flyin Miata Inconel Stage 8 Turbo Studs.

technicalninja

I prefer the fluid damper over the ATI. Easier to install and the physics of the puppy is better for street use. It's a wider range of dampening.

Holding the heat in is fine until it's too much heat. The turbine section is too much heat. If I was to put a shield over a turbine housing it would be stainless only and would have a big dedicated cooling path into it and out.
I would in effect remove the heat it was making, not try to hold it in...

technicalninja

Cooked turbine housings are usually light grey/white. The heat trashes the oil "seal" on the turbine shaft.
It can jack with the metallurgy of the housing. make it brittle and prone to cracking.
Occasionally it "melts" the turbine blades.
Heat is bad, it can be your enemy

technicalninja

The VVT head adds significant complexity, both in mechanical application and in tuning.
It IS better but only slightly better. Being able to alter the closing point of the intake valve allows for different dynamic compression.
This can be useful, properly set up the car will have slightly more low end torque and it will spool the turbo slightly quicker.
I will use VVT but I am extremely competent and I am also aware of the pitfalls that can happen with adjustable intake cam timing on the fly.
You have to be super careful if you add big cams, this can wreck a project.
For the less experienced it add MPITO gains for significant complexity.

MPITO- Mouse **** in the ocean. If a mouse pisses in the ocean does it vary the volume- yes, does it matter-no.

Dawn

I checked it out, pretty neat. That's probably the better option for me.

Good to know, I think I'll skip the blanket for now and see what temps do. Probably won't take but so much pressure to get to my goal so hopefully my heat won't be too crazy.

Unfortunately I'm aware. My RSX S is a K20A2 and I had to tune the VTEC in it. Learned from those to just run stock cams in most instances, but dang do the VTEC Killer Cams sound ****. I think my power goals could sidestep building a VVT beast, but the torque down low can be nice.

I think my only questions left thus far are where to source the parts I listed. I'm not sure what the best option is, and it seems like only experience can tell.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Poly hangers will heat up and stretch. I have seen up to an inch of stretch in 6 months of street driving. Use rubber ones and put large coolant clamps over them to help hold them in place.

Inconel hardware is available from a variety of sources. Shop around for it.

Also if you want to be almost one of a kind there is also the option pictured below avaiable.

SpartanSV

Last I knew there wasn't a .64 v band option for the efr so the fab9 kit is stupid.

I run 240kpa+ on stock 97 coils with NGK iridium plugs. Skip the coil upgrade.