I agree but the volume doesnt destroy engines, its the level of boost pressure you run that causes the reliability issues with stock internals (In relation to comp ratio), again, working on the car having no det issues tune-wise..............??? :twofinger

still doesn't mean you are educated in the subject matter, because you've proven you aren't.

not a bad thing, but you are wrong on this.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320956945

:facepalm:


this is best comparasion that you might understand.

10 psi t2 turbo(small) vs 10 psi t4(large)

the smaller one will produce less volume at 10psi because of the size. the bigger one will have MORE volume at 10 psi since its larger.

compare it to this.....

a miata traveling 50mph hitting a parked car vs a 20 ton semi truck hitting the parked at 50 mph. both traveling the same speed (producing the same psi) but will give different outputs.

which one will cause more damage? ( produce more volume/horsepower )

OK, can we just get back to the original question...at what BHP level do the stock internals tend to let go at?? The stock compression ratio must be a factor in dictating the level of boost and power the stock internals can take before going bang? That is all I was trying to establish in the first place???

It isn't so much the internals, as it is the transmission and rear end. 5spds are in a danger zone at about 250whp. 6spds have proven to be stronger. 1.6 diffs can be blown up under stock power. I don't remember any recent posts about a blown 1.8 diff.

IMO, most blown motors are results of poor tuning. Detonation is the ultimate killer of motors. If you are running a stock head, valve float is another concern. 250whp has been done frequently with stock internals. And 250whp makes a miata pretty quick.

If I were you, I'd buy a smaller, more responsive turbo, shoot for 200whp, but with a nice wide torque curve. That'll make the car more usable in day-to-day driving than shooting for an arbitrary peak number.

Scott,

Thanks for the really helpful post mate. So im guessing a T28 is the way forward, offering at least 250BHP capability but still giving good spool-up rev's wise. What is the reccomendations for a budget manifold? i was going to buy one of the ebaycast jobs, then port it, skim the manifold flange and put in relief cuts to help stop cracking......or are the fabricated log type SS units any good?

Cheers

Andy:cool::D

Begi manifolds have been used with some success, although relief cuts are mandatory to prevent cracking over time. Flyin Miata manifolds appear to only be available in T2 sizes.

If I were looking for a manifold, I'd watch the "For Sale" section of the forum (as well as the other major miata forums) for a used one. Someone upgrades to a tubular manifold, ditches their cast manifold on the cheap, you win. :D


You could always pay a fabricator to build you a custom manifold, but that may abandon your "on a budget" plans.

EDIT: Ebay manifolds may be hit or miss. Are you willing to take the risk of having to buy a replacement manifold? Sometimes it's better to pay for the extra peace of mind. It's all about choices. Sometimes the option with a higher upfront cost will end up being cheaper in the long run. :2cents:

So are the cast 1.6 turbo manifolds on ebay a load of crap???

That's the thing, I don't know. Ebay sourced car parts are a bit of a gamble. You could buy one that cracks in less than a month, or get one that lasts 5+ years with no problems.

If the car needs to be daily driver reliable, go for the more expensive options, they're proven to work well and last. If it's a toy/weekend car that can afford to have some down time if a part fails, the Ebay manifold seems more reasonable.

It all comes down to time. Ebay parts ARE more risky than their tried and true counterparts. IMO the Ebay sourced part will fail sooner than more expensive/more readily used parts. On the other hand, you can pick up a manifold for what? $125? You could buy a few before you equal the cost of a custom unit. Same thing goes for turbos, you can blow up plenty of chinachargers before your cost equals that of one Garrett. If you can afford to have the miata go down due to a turbo system problem, and have the time/energy to possibly remove/replace parts, pick up an Ebay log and roll with it.

Chinachargers are becoming more and more common (as I'm sure you know). The quality of those Chinese turbos seems to be increasing. Does this mean the manifolds have gotten better? Who knows? Wanna be a guinea pig? :D

250 rwtq.

BHP. lol.

Very true. Torque is what moves the car (and breaks shit); HP is the rate at which said torque is applied.

no.

How so?

HP is a product.

"Torque, moment or moment of force, is the tendency of a force to rotate an object about an axis"

"Torque is a measure of the turning force on an object such as a bolt or a flywheel"

So, torque is the force that makes the drive wheels of the car rotate, propelling it. How is torque not the force that moves the car?


Horsepower = (Torque X RPM)/5250

Horsepower is a measurement of how torque is applied throughout the rev-range. Thus, it tells us the rate at which torque is applied. Low HP means slow torque output (think Semi truck with a diesel), and high HP means quick torque output.

God damn both of you shut the fuck up.

Most boost on a stock block is probably 25-30psi. As for most power, people have run 400hp on the stock block. The stock rods are weak though and will bend and die as early as 250hp though.

Lol....go 2ndGearRubber.............im liking your style!!

it appears that HP is a product of a math equation...

FaeFlora....please read my question...Im asking what the max power/boost level is for a stock engine with stock internals that has been boosted? Back to my point......the CR will be the ultimate limiting factor and there is no way on hell a bone stock engine with stock internals will take 25-30Psi......................is there ? lol

Lets all stop scoring points....even someone who isnt a Noob and who is "Experianced" on this forum can get it totally fucked up......and gets taught a lesson (Well done Scott..Shit Hot teaching dude!!) :giggle::rofl:

the limit is ~225-250rwtq. the end. move along. use the search button next time.

I can do whatever i want. I am the 1%.

My miata would destroy your overpriced piece of shit.

I LOL'd!!!

Well that turned out as expected. If betting on a fight between someone who is "Experianced" vs Super Human Admin Powers, always bet on the admin.

Dude, 12PSI=12PSI. You just don't know. He haz a mad tyte GTR. Your car will never be as good.

discusted? what's that?

:fawk:

The guy got a perfectly valid answer 225 - 250wh/tq Unfortunately he was fixated on wanting an upper boost limit, that answer is unavailable as has been stated it really depends.

Unfortunately the poster couldn't get his head around that fact and threw his toys out.

He was a guest on the site and behaved badly, I think Brain was well within his rights to ban him.

Keep saying shit about me...

i answered the question. i pointed an error in fact (not theory). i wasn't being mean i wasn't being hostile.

i was, however, annoyed to answer the same question for the 158th time; limit is 225-250rwtq, which I answered.

i will continue to lol at people who use BHP. i will continue to lol at noobs who think 17psi = 17psi regardless of the volume flow. i will continue to be annoyed at new users that post in threads that have nothing to do with the subject matter on hand.

Warrington

Birmingham

Missus lives in the latter, I live in the former.

Anyway my opinion is invalid on this site as i have a supercharger, ha ha :P

Keep this thread garrett vs chinacharger related content, else warnings/bans go out.

we should get some sort of "confirmed fits and doesnt suck" chinacharger list with applicable links. back in the day i did a bunch of searching to find this sort of info, but everything all consolidated in a thread/sticky would be nice for future reference.

My 2870 churbo is still good. I fairly happy with it. I was able to see most of the boost before 4k rpms.

Lol @ 1%

Why is the China a 2870? Does it use a 2871 housing?
Is the "2870" because the gap between the compressor tip and the housing is > 1mm? :giggle:

I believe the one BEGi sells the compressor wheel was closer to 70mm, so that's probably where that came from.


I know the ebay one labeled as a 2860 is a 71mm compressor:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321286895

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r/IMG_7191.jpg


I chose mine very carefully, I have a t3 trim chinacharger and it was very difficult to find one that had a 60mm compressor wheel, most were 76mm or bigger.

Daymn that's a legitly sized inducer.

Could be, after all is Ebay :dunno:

I believe the pictures are the ones that Phil took when he ordered his turbo. The seller (Speedyracer) has the turbo listed as a 2870 despite the inducer being 71mm... just saying

well when Phil bought the turbo it was listed as a 2860...just saying

I never said it wasn't, it's labeled as 70 now. Same seller.

my 3076 was actually quite a bit larger than the "specs" posted for it indicated. like 4mm larger iirc.

on another note
LOL, how did I miss the n00b pwnage.....I'm getting old *sniff*

okay, cool thanks. :makeout:

Not on the first date

Holy fuck, I just wanted a single, simple answer and it turned into a 5 page odyssey.

Might as well ask what the upper psi range would be for a 2871 .86 Garrett on a 1.6? I'm going to run E85 I think.

the .86 will spool like donkey dick on a 1.6L -- hope this is a built motor running 8K

It will be.