Garrett or Chinacharger?
 

Is the almost 1000 dollars worth the extras? Main thing I can see is ball bearing instead of thrust bearing.

I've been on my Garrett for about 75-hours and 15k miles and never had a problem. It still has stock-like shaft play and I bet I'm harder on it than you'll ever be.

You should look at the Borg Warner stuff too. The new EFR stuff is looking pretty good.

T25 housings possible?

Pretty sure people here have confirmed that the chinachargers make less power.

If it is a street car I see no reason why to not go with a chinacharger. For a track car I would not go with one.

ultimately depends on your budget and how you plan to use the car (street/track). Unless youre on a super tight budget i would say 'do it right the first time' and get garrett or similar. I feel like this is one of the components you should get geniune, but thats just me. You can pick up a lightly used garrett or nissan turbo for pretty cheap

So y'all think the chinacharger 2871 would be worth it. I'm already building a forged 1.6 with oversize valves?

From my experience and the research I did, I found that pretty much if you buy a ball bearing china charger, it will fail.
However, if you buy a "wet float" or journal bearing type, it will hold up.
I own a Garrett Journal bearing, so I guess I have the best of both worlds.

chinacharger you'll most likely be alright, just get one that others have used and tested so far. I'd look at either the speedyracer "2871" or godspeeds "2871". Godspeed has a lil bigger turbine housing im pretty sure, other than that they are pretty close

Almost every single Chinacharger I've seen significantly less torque under 5000rpm than a comparable Garrett. There are exceptions to this rule, but for the most part that is the rule.

If you are spending money on a good manifold, a standalone, a nice 3" exhaust, a good clutch, and all the other bits and pieces that make up a quality turbo setup, you'd be a fool to run a cheap, sub-par turbo IMO. You don't have to shell out $1k+ for a Garrett DBB, but you should at least run something like an SR20 T25 or another used Garrett in a size that fits your goals

Pay $550 and get a fucking borg warner airwerks turbo.

Something like this cute little thing

http://www.himni-racing.com/index.ph...oducts_id=1922

Buy blown SR20 T25 for like $100, buy new DBB CHRA for $500, have pretty much new 2560 for half price.

T3 60 = my recommendation
Push more than a T25, easily found, t3 flange, older garrett journal bearing and they came with carbon seals standard on some models instead of dynamic seals.



That S246 is interesting, wonder if there is a compressor map for it

I'm looking for a 2871, so I guess I'll be saving for a true garrett. I want all the torque I can get.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1319999696

Cheap. $500.

http://areadieselstore.com/177258.aspx

That looks like the map for the 56mm actually

From what I can tell, a chincharger is a lot like using an older turbo.
The design and quality of the wheels have come far enough that their is a measurable difference in performance. That being said, you can still do very well with a chinacharger.

Get a journal bearing churbo and you have a very good chance that it will be reliable.
People burn up Garrett turbos too. Its hard to tell if all the burned up chinachargers failed because of inherent design or because the people using them didnt provide them with a proper oil feed/drain.

Given the money, I would have a superior turbo to a china one. Now that I have decent internals, I would go better. IMHO, a bb 2860 like Trey has, will spool better than my turbo which is smaller, and our boost thresholds, well they are about equal, and I have a smaller one. But.... My turbo has been good to me, and made enough power to blow the stock internals, and wasn't too bad on spool or TQ. A 400 dollar 2871 seems awesome, but when a better, smaller turbo makes more power than you... I don't want to hear it.

I wouldn't mind a turbonetics but I need a t25 exhaust flange. I already have my downpipe.

I have run both Garrett and China Chargers. I actually still have my old original .42/.48china charger that came from ss auto chrome. It made 184.4 WHP and 184.2 Tourque on my old civic at 12PSI. It saw tons of abuse and I never let it cool after beating on it. It never saw an oil restrictor and it still has almost zero shaft play. It's actually in better shape than the SR20 turbo I bought for my miata build.

I upgraded to a Garrett T3 .60/.63 57 Trim and it was useless. Great turbo but too much for a 1.6 on the street. IMO, proper sizing of a turbo is more important than the name on it. I would buy another china charger in a heart beat.

i have a t3 50trim "emusa" turbo from ebay. 180 shipped... brain has the same turbo and has been running it longer than me. he made 234ish hp at 14psi i believe. street car, just get a churbo. what are your goals? win a championship race, have a turbo miata or say you have super cool expensive parts?

My godspeed gt28 is still running like a champ. Awesome power too.

At least 300 whp. I'm aiming for 340 with water/meth.

I'd be switching up to a T3 turbo at this point.

why water\meth at 340? I wouldn't use water\meth until you are knock limited.
You have a built engine?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320072192


:brain: I'll gladly give up any top-end gains for a mid-range like that. I still want moar better down low...I'd downgrade it further if I could, but alas, this is about as small as it gets on a T3 flange.

I've seen that dyno before but iirc you had changes between the turbos, it maybe same pressure but I'm guesing actual airflow isn't the same.

yeah, the compressor wheel is significantly smaller, so the torque curve has moved to the left. This compressor wheel outputs more like a 2554 (25 lb/min) vs a 2560 (35 lb/min).


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320072888 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320072888





Keep in mind the dynos were different and the red line has correction, but you can clearly see the chinacharger is better sized for my 1.6L motor.

I'm working on getting my parts together. It just seems like a lot of people are having problems breaking 300. But now knowing what I know, would a 2876 be a better option than the 2871?

breaking 300 or breaking an engine?
Do you have upgraded internals?

I will have a forged bottom end and a head with oversized valves before all is said and done.

Than if you want to hit 340 find a turbo that will be in its efficiency zone at that power output.

I don't think people have problems breaking 300, it's just that most people choose not to go that high.

Bingo.

Hmmm..... okay, thenI'll stick with the 2871.

What is your description of "too much for a 1.6 on the street?" 2/10's of a liter make no difference.

Instead of bouncing around from turbo to turbo you hopefully understand that turbo size/selection should be made on what your final goal's are. I would/will and have chosen Garrett over other turbo's simply because they are a proven product. Yes sometime's I got pulled by a car length or two simply because I did not want to abuse my clutch or half-shaft's in my T66 MR2T but I quickly made up those lost length's and walked away.

Well that was before I became a police officer but my point is just choose what you want to achieve with the car and save yourself alot of money and hassle in the long term. Also imho any highly boosted engine should have an EMS that you can program boost level's via the gear or rpm for maximum traction.

Actually 2/10's of a litre does make a difference.

I made 300whp at 14psi on a 2871. I think that turbo will do 400whp.

Savington, always stepping in and telling me what I want to hear.

especially when you are bolting on a 450rwhp turbo.

Maybe it does for some but for myself that 2/10's difference is too small and can easily be compensated in different area's. Anywho I'm not here to argue or discredit anyone's opinion ;) .

And it can't make it up in others. This is wastegate on a 1.8L (~7psi) vs 12psi on a 1.6L

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320765847

The above are 300rwhp turbos, imagine a 450rwhp one.


Same story here:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...ie_vs_vash.jpg

this time the 1.8L is running around 12psi and the 1.6L a lot more.

when you consider that a 57 trim will make peak torque around 5K or so on a 1.6L, it makes a big difference.

Guys, Im keen to build a street turbo setup for my 1991 1600cc Eunos Roadster. What exact spec of "Ebay" turbo is going to give me good spool up/response yet be able to make circa 200 BHP at the rear wheels???? Please can you reccomend specs or even better, postup a link to fleabay to highlight the right turbo?

I know budget turbos are not everyones cup of tea but this is a budget project for me having just finished my 650BHP R32 GT-R (the Mazda is my wifes fun car that I restored for her....now she wants more power thus the turbo).

Also....does anyone know the max boost you can run on a stock 1600cce engines before I need to goto forged internals (NOT BUDGET!!)

Thanks in advance peeps..............

Search Noob!

Any of the smaller t25s should get you there.

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/max-boost-stock-internals-1-6-a-61352/

What about a TD04 turbo off a Subaru imprezza WRX guys??

Lots of guys are running the td04s off of the mitsus so I don't see why not. Might wanna see if it has an odd flange though.

Cheers fella... A helpful reply!! As these are readily available for not a lot of cash I will go down this route I think. I've just got to find a manifold and downpipe and then I'm sorted!!

your a genus

yes subie OEM turbo is not a standard t2/3 whatever 4 bolt flange

Sigh nobody liked my borg warner turbo idea. almost as cheap as ebay. good quality. sigh

Running a TD04-13T off a WRX currently. Absolutely great turbo for the street, top end is weak for track use. BEGi created an adapter from when they built mine years ago and sell it on their site. Bonus is they are dirt cheap and have OEM reliability.

Karter, what psi are you boosting at and what bhp atw are you making?

Borg warner turbos rock...but they are not cheap!! Do any of u guys run holset diesel turbos? Their smallest unit spools up crazy fast and a lot of the 4 pot VW and audi guys see 500bhp with better response than the oem turbos !!! Check out HE221W turbo by holset!!!

Did someone just ask how much boost a motor can handle?! 10000PSI!!!!!

Dustin....thats some funny shit fella. Lets beat the noob up...appart from im only a noob to this foryum, already having fully build from a bare shell a Nissan R32 GT-R, currently running at 600BHP....all spec'd and built by me. Turbocharging my wifes 5 and thus joining this forum is a small project for me.

So please class me as well and truly De-Noobed......and please, no more wise guy answers to my questions eh???

If you wanna go fast, get a ride in a GT-R....mx-5's are just toys compared to the GT-R!!

Wow good for you! I've done a couple of motor swaps in gt-r's. A 89 and a 90. Also did single turbo conversions, full fab, cage, fuel cell, haltech. The whole nine yards. So the fact you have all this knowledge, and you ask how much boost a motor can handle is just retarded beyond belief. Because as you obviously know, 20 psi on a t25 turbo is different from 20psi on a gt40 turbo. But clearly you know that, and what you asked was just a lapse in judgement.

Funnyman, what I meant was what level of boost have people put through their stock internals before there is a need to go for a build. As you will know being a wise guy, all stock pistons and rods have a power level at which regardless of tune the comp ratio and power will cause them to break..... That is what I was trying to establish.... And in the UK and GTR world this is associated to the level of boost and bhp made by the mill. So....rather than taking the piss answer my question seriously if you can..... If not jog on and waste somebody else's time please ?

Ok seriously, is there just a language barrier here? The level of boost that your motor can handle is going to be based entirely on what turbo you are running. The stock internals have been known to break anywhere from 170 to 300HP. Most people run 200ish all day. Some people 250. As for how much BOOST is safe, see my previous post. Tell me what turbo and your supporting parts that go with it, and I'll tell you what boost your stock motor will probably handle.

How can that be the case mate....17 psi is 17 psi....regardless as to which turbo or turbo spec you have delivering the 17psi. If even with a good tune the stock internals give up the ghost at 17psi of boost then. For example, if you knew about RB26 engines if is a well known and well established fact that regardless of turbo, anything more than 1.2bar of boost = mashed internals.

I think we are going to have to draw a line under this one.....you are a long standing member of this forum and I respect that but at the same time, I have been a long standing member of most of the GTR forums for over 10 years now and like to think I am reasonably well thought of technically.

I would appreciate your Miata TB experiance though.....if we can quit the bitching?

I am going to build a fully forged engine for my wifes car but in the meantime I need to establish a basic setup that will allwo me to upgrade the turbo and injectors etc once the fully forged lump is ready.

So, I would like reccomedations with regards to exact turbo spec and manifold choice to allow the car to make a minimum of 200bhp at the wheels in a real street drivable form with enough ceiling to do the odd track day.

Can you help?

Cheers

Andy

You're missing a key component, and that is volume. Different sized turbos move different amounts of air, that's why they make different sized turbos. 15PSI on a T28 turbo is going to make about 250hp, 15PSI on a T25 sr20det nissan will make 200hp. The bigger turbo is pushing more air in, but it still the same pressure. If you want to make 200HP, get a t25 turbo.

wait... I thought your WEREN'T a noob.

:loser: :jerkit: :noob: