From Ghetto T25 2 T3 whizbanger
 

Got home about 3pm today and tore the car to pieces. Not all of it, just the turbo setup. Over the past year i've been buying bits and pieces while deals come up once in a while to swap over to a much nicer T3 setup. That consists of a BEGI S5 manifold and SS downpipe and a T3-60 trim. Going to continue using the Tial WG because it works perfect.

This swap is going to consist of removing my current T25 setup that came on my car that happens to be pretty much junk as well as redoing the hotside IC plumbing and many other things that I don't feel are up to par on the car. While I have it all torn apart i'm going to do a timing belt and water pump swap while I can.

I also have a GS radiator, FM sways, and a few other things to install, fab, or modify. Hopefully it all comes together well.

I would post the pictures here but that would require effort, instead here are half of the pictures from today.
T25 Setup Removal
T3 Setup Mockup

For those too lazy, here are some highlights:
Cracked Manifold
http://tokrv.net/cjernigan/t3upgrade...mbnails/18.jpg
Cracked Downpipe
http://tokrv.net/cjernigan/t3upgrade...mbnails/12.jpg
Hardened Drain Line (1 year old, adding 4" extesion next time to keep this from happening)
http://tokrv.net/cjernigan/t3upgrade...umbnails/2.jpg
Leaking Exhaust Mani Gasket At Cyl #4
http://tokrv.net/cjernigan/t3upgrade...mbnails/40.jpg

New stuff that will be installed soon:
http://tokrv.net/cjernigan/begiprodu...mbnails/23.jpghttp://tokrv.net/cjernigan/begi/begi-Thumbnails/24.jpg

Oh and I forgot to add. While tearing the car apart today I discovered all kinds of neat things.
-The $100 T25 is tight as a whistle and could definitely be run again by someone else the way it is.
-My manifold cracked at the collector, it had been repaired once and it cracked down the weld. All this was done by the previous owner.
-My WG outlet tube had cracked as well, the crack goes around atleast half of the tube and it was cracking on the inside of the flange as well. This is part of the cause of my slow spooling.
-I had an exhaust leak at CYL#4 between the manifold and the head it appears though i'm not 100% positive. You be the judge by the gasket. I also had a leak at two of the Tial WG gaskets. I also had a leak between the turbo and the manifold as well as between the turbo and the downpipe.
All of these leaks were caused because of failed gaskets, no gasket = no failure. Atleast that is the route we're going to try with the new setup.

So why did the mani crack? That sucks terrible as I just bought one to use with my setup.

$104 tensioner and idler pulleys
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214861
if the link doesn't work, go to www.mazdapartszone.com, and search for part number B6S0-1-2207-MV. Also add in part B660-12-711C ($3 tensioner spring). Should be free shipping too.

Looks like fun man, cant wait to see it when its done. I wish I could find time to work on my car.
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I agree- gaskets are bad idea in turbo apps. They NEVER worked for me. Two flat surfaces with good torque ftw. We'll miss your ghetto EWG tubing fo sho. :sadwavey:

A-fucking-men i hear ya man...have not seen my car in about a month :mad:

way to go Chad, your car will appreciate you more now and may stop cracking parts, lol
send PM to MUSANOVIC, i think he might have solved the issue of gaskets for once and for all, ask him to explain what he did as i don't remember exactly, but it works...good luck man

Cool. You might as well replace the cam and crank seals while your at it. I used Rosenthal Mazda(finishlineperformance) out of VA. I just replaced the clutch, cam seals, front and rear tranny seals, rear main, crank seal, water pump, motor mounts, water pump, tensioner spring, timing belt, oil pan seals, cam cover gasket. They have a timing belt kit as well, like 80 dollars or so, and a new water pump and gaskets for like 60 bucks, but you pay for shipping.

rosenthal is ok with prices, i still think the best price is if you go to the dealership and make buddies with the parts guy/guys
ex: i got a TB kit and WP for $105 after tax...i buy from the same guy everytime, he knows i'll be back b/c of the hook up...

The dealership near my house is full-o-dill holes. They refuse to match Rosenthal's prices, even with shipping. So screw them. I only use them for the oil filter and crush washer.

I feel your pain bro, I havent started my car in over a week.

FWIW, I used ebay TB/WP kit over a year ago with no problems.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-05...spagenameZWDVW
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Great news Chad; I guess I'll have to send you the 3" Enthuza Midpipe and exhaust now! ;)

No, the best price is through Mazda Motorsports, I think members get prices cheaper than the dealer. :)

I just applied for a Mazda Motorsports membership. Hopefully they process it in the next day or two so I can get this stuff by friday. If not I'll make due or i'll order from Rosenthal.

it takes them a while....

it took me 2 days to get approved, this was just last week, they are quick if you make it easy for them to verify your scores, i sent them links to my local clubs results page as well as the format they asked for, like i said, two days total

Anything you'd order from Rosenthal, get with me about. I should be cheaper. Though Comp will be less.

Glad you got rid of that EWG ;)

TRU DAT!!

I did the same thing and no problems(except i have a 1.6).And the dealership wanted over $140 for the WP and TB :bowrofl:.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks greatly for your help. Hopefully Comp can push me through processing and I can my order in quickly. I have plenty to do in the meantime though.

I seem to remember reading about using 'o-ring' seals instead of gaskets awhile back. Basically the idea was to machine a small circular grove on one of the two surfaces to be joined approximately the width of a piece of safety wire, then cut a corresponding length of safety wire and fit it into the groove.

Then join the two halves. I know it has to be more complex than this, but at the time, I saw it as a way to get better than average cylinder sealing. I wonder if the same technique can be applied for exhaust and intake manifold sealing?

Edit: I found a thread that has good pictures: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22030

Sure you can oring flanges, they do it to heads, though I don't see the need considering people using no gasket/oring at all usually don't have issues if torqued appropriately.

If that is the case, is the reason that manufacturers use gaskets there because they can get away with less exact torque and manufacturing tolerances?

Just guessing...

BEGI doesn't use gaskets, other's use gasket to make up for any and all differences in flange surfaces including flatness. The problem is they burn out, even copper ones will have blow outs. Some people have great luck with them but on my kit alone i had 4 failed gaskets. The new setup will have no gaskets so it should be interesting.

Bout dam time Chad looks fast.

Haven't even installed any of the new stuff. Go look at the first post again, i added some pictures to the post of the new mani and downpipe.

Ouch, how things add up. Haven't made the order yet. Just got approved for Mazda Motorsports parts purchasing this morning. Might be some savings there.
http://i30.tinypic.com/23huphl.jpg

I've always used the stuff shown on this page for making gaskets for turbo systems...

http://heating-and-cooling.hardwares...nt-256040.aspx

It's 2000 degree gasket maker and I just put a little bit of it on any of the exhaust mating surfaces and I have never had a leak once.

I got mine at Ace Hardware, one tube will last you a long time.

I stole this idea from JGS Turbo, it's what they recommend using and they sell it on their website but it's cheaper to just buy it at the hardware store.

Worth a try, i'm headed that way anyway. Long as it's not a $20 product i'll see what it can do.

the valve cover gasket you listed is for a 1.6 :giggle:

Man i suck at life. You get my PM?
Fixed the order.

duh chad B6 is me not you :p i never said you installed it just that it is about time you did something :D If it takes me getting adicted to WoW to help you move along then so be it ;)

Also, you probably want to spend the extra $$ on the gates racing belt so you don't have to think about the tb job again for 100k. Might want to replace the other belts while you're at it (with oem type).

I've always had GREAT luck with a high temp gasket material I picked up at NAPA. It's a perforated metal core covered in graphite, and works extremely well as long as it is sealing. I've made my turbine exit gaskets, my turbine inlet gasket, and my wastegate gasket with this material. If I had a better way to cut the shit, I would have made a head/exhaust manifold gasket.

I have also had great luck with what appeared to be a pressed paper type gasket. It was given to me by a machinist to make my first turbine exit gasket. He had used this material to make a headgasket for an old generator, and it has held up for years.

Where do you suggest I buy the Gates belt? I just called the local Napa, they said Gates makes all their belts. $53.49 for the belt from them, or $147.39 for the belt tensioner, spring, and idler pulley.
Or just the belt from here if it's not the same thing:
http://www2.partstrain.com/store/?N=...4294967267+787

Unless mazcomp has them hidden somewhere.

No--you want the blue gates racing belt. Miataroadster carries them, but his site is f'd up right now. Call Bill 888-88-miata

this one that's in Brian's (Tom's) motor
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/gouldmab...%20(Large).JPG

I heard the Gates Racing Belt was super loud compared to OEM style belts. Any insight or truth to this?

loud? :jerkit:

Is it even worth it? I'll probably be tearing the head apart in the next 2 years for port work or cam's or something like that. I think i'll stick with the cheap OEM one and call it good. I don't need that baller blue belt, though it would match my VC.

best thing ever!!!!!
i am using it and it is perfect and the price is damn cheap. will work 100%

There is a shop in Fort worth that sales wholesale to all the part houses for special order forein parts. The last Miata I sold needed a timing belt due to tensioner pulley failure. I got the belt, Idler and tension pulley for like 53.00.
And they were good parts. Not cheap crap.
I'll try to get the name if any body wants to order pullies from them.

I sharted when Napa gave me a price.

Is it partsdinosaur.com ?

Ordered my timing belt components from mazcomp today.
Did a quick and dirty mockup of the new manifold and turbo to see how far off the old hotside IC pipe was going to be. Also wanted to see how much I was going to modify the OEM powersteering line coming from the pump to the resevoir as well as the lower coolant hose.
Here are some photos showing the interference and current hotside pipe relative to the sidemount BEGI mani versus the old HKS setup.
http://lh5.google.com/cjernigan/R_wx...JPG?imgmax=640
http://lh3.google.com/cjernigan/R_wx...JPG?imgmax=144
http://lh6.google.com/cjernigan/R_wx...JPG?imgmax=512
http://lh4.google.com/cjernigan/R_wx...JPG?imgmax=640


I also added links to the new web albums. I decided to load all this stuff up to google's picasa through my gmail account. It turns out google worked with apple to make it an integrated feature in iphoto to upload to your picasa albums. Pretty cool, now I will be keeping the album seperated instead of just a huge stew pot of non-captioned images.

clean that frigin aC compressor gees Chad.

No kidding that bad boy is daerrrttty. (It's the PS pump though, not A/C)

On the note of PS pumps, anyone know where the picture is of the guy that made the replacement flange that went where that hardline is? I'm considering two options. Make an adapter, or modify what I have to work. I think i'm just going to modify the current hardline so that it can face down, then use the OEM hose. Just need to do it is all. Pics to follow tomorrow.

Just don't try to bend it if you want to keep the hardline. Ask me how I know.

I won't be bending it any, unless I am applying a large amount of heat via an ocy/acet torch. I'm most likely going to try and twist the bracket that holds it to the pump, see if it will spin on the tube any, to get it routed straight down. The OEM P/S line will even work with that routing due to the 90* bend in it.

How do you guys recommend I polish my Tial Wastegate? It's oxidized and dull right now. Should i just take some rubbing compound to it or something else?

Bought all my parts for the timing belt job. Originally I was going to be saving $30 by buying it all from mazdaspeed motorsports, then they were going to charge me tax. It ended up being $25 cheaper by buying it from Rosenthal/Finishline Performance because they don't charge out of state tax and they don't charge for shipping.

Don't polish it. It will be fine.

lol. holy ghetto wastegate setup!

How are you planning on wastegate routing with that divided BEGI downpipe? Thats a bit of a waste with that downpipe for an external wg isn't it?

I applied over 2 1/2 years ago. They keep sending me shit in the mail, but won't let me order anything. :bang:

I bought that car with that T25 setup on it. It couldn't have gotten much more ghetto.

You need to explain on how you think it's a waste? The only reason I wanted this recirculated is to be quiet, my old dump was loud and I want more stealth.
The small tube connects to the wastegate and dump into the downpipe, at that point the downpipe swages to the same internal volume as the WG tube and the existing DP size. It terminates at 3" after the flex.

I have the Gates Racing Belt on my car.. it's loud as hell sound like i have a belt driven Supercharger.

I'd only suggest them on a built motor that you plan to rev the crap out of..

I ordered all Mazda components. I'll be taking the head off for head work or i'll be swapping cams sooner than I will reach 50-100k miles anyway so it wasn't worth it.

I just realized why elesjuan doesn't understand my downpipe. This image from BEGI shows how it is routed.
http://bellengineering.net/Images/Mi...o/P2223646.JPG

ooooh... That makes more sense! I was having a lot of trouble picturing how you were going to plumb in the external wg with the Begi dp, but the larger photo explains it. Didn't notice in your smaller picture it wasn't routed to normal location.

;)

Get that back together and post results, stat!

Hey--what are you doing with my downpipe :hustler: :fawk:
Did you go with the mazda water pump? Curious to know your thoughts on it, once it's in your hands. The one I got this morning is pretty shitty.

I'll chime in on the WP.
I got mine from mazda, looked decent, nothing special or purrty, just some cast piece of cast AL. Works so far. Is there a better higher flowing alternative from other cars, anyone know of any research done on like a kia, ford or similar?

Ben, you have email at mazmart's sale address, I forwarded something.
I did go with the Mazda water pump just because my other options didn't look legit at the time.

How long ago? Did you have to tap threads in for the bolts?

sales is community. if it's more private in nature, ben at mazmart dot com would be preferable